Mandatory training will shut out stalkers when Scotland needs them most

[Conor O'Gorman]

This week, BASC Scotland gave evidence to the Scottish Parliament’s Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. The session focused on the deer management elements of the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill.

In the article below BASC Scotland director, Peter Clark, warns that proposals in the Natural Environment Bill risk undermining deer management in Scotland with new barriers, unclear targets and a lack of financial support.

Mandatory training will shut out stalkers when Scotland needs them most

BASC Scotland director warns that proposals in the Natural Environment Bill risk undermining deer management in Scotland.

basc.org.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Here is video footage from the evidence session:

 

[Freeforester]

Clipboard managers to the fore, doers impeded from doing.

 

[Buchan]

Disappointing response from BASC. Training can never be undervalued. We all should have to prove we are competent and safe to own a firearm and to inflict deliberate harm to an animal with it. And safe to put the produce into the food chain. BASC should be supporting mandatory training, albeit with an initial grandfather right clause

 

[LuckyEddie]

Disappointing response from BASC. Training can never be undervalued. We all should have to prove we are competent and safe to own a firearm and to inflict deliberate harm to an animal with it. And safe to put the produce into the food chain. BASC should be supporting mandatory training, albeit with an initial grandfather right clause

Training and certification is already impacting on deer stalking.

This from a Fb site.
Only for an assistant mind, but FLS require these.
Which effectively rule out a father and younger son going out.

If they want community buy in to reduce deer numbers the certification ain’t the way to go as I can’t think of any crofter or local that would be willing to fork out money and time with no way of recovering at least double the amount

 

[Foxyboy43]

Disappointing response from BASC. Training can never be undervalued. We all should have to prove we are competent and safe to own a firearm and to inflict deliberate harm to an animal with it. And safe to put the produce into the food chain. BASC should be supporting mandatory training, albeit with an initial grandfather right clause

Call me old-fashioned but isn’t this yet another restriction on our beloved sport - turkeys voting for you know what and at a time when shooting is already under serious threat?
I am all for learning especially through a mentor but this just makes me wonder how anyone ever managed to learn our craft and hone their marksmanship skills before all of this “skooling” came along…

 

[Heym SR20]

Deer into the foodchain? I heard today that the neighbouring Forestry Scotland larder can not get rid of any carcasses so are just putting them in a skip.

It is not deer management, it is deer eradication and extinction.

 

[Freeforester]

Strong, the neocolonial ruler mindset is, in these ones…

All the same wooly urging - to impoverish the natives all the while making them pay for the privilege.

What about the bumble bee? Or the human socio-economical aspects for rural communities - do these things no longer matter?

They talk of ‘nature recovery’, yet their own policies and actions eg ignoring the riparian habitats within the nowhere near natural National Forest Estate, enabling polluting of marine ecosystems, predator preservation at the expense of endangered species etc demonstrate how slippery they are; why would anyone trained or otherwise place their trust in the future of the land in such shysters, much less pay to do their bidding?
Never does anyone hear of a reasonable grazing rate for deer comparable to eg sheep, the latter of which there are multiple times compared to deer - why the persecution of such an iconic species which, after all is largely well managed already in open hill scenarios?

Taxpayer funded cellulose production, any profits from which end up privatised, and the externalities and ecological downsides socialised.. now the war on deer, to create what exactly and over what time scale, and with what socio-economic benefit to those who live and work in such places?

Does the deer benefit from being shot by someone taught at their evening class any more than an other who learnt the craft from their forebears? Do the stakeholders benefit from the massive investment in lardering facilities at pence per kilo or less, as @Mungo points out? What, exactly, is the vision?

Cui buono?

 

[Buchan]

Call me old-fashioned but isn’t this yet another restriction on our beloved sport - turkeys voting for you know what and at a time when shooting is already under serious threat?
I am all for learning especially through a mentor but this just makes me wonder how anyone ever managed to learn our craft and hone their marksmanship skills before all of this “skooling” came along…

When few people did it, the time served apprentice was probably OK. Deer Act and Food Standards Changed that - rightly so. Now lots of people without that time served aspect want to do stalking, so they need training. As do those who've been doing it wrong for years.

 

[Freeforester]

The presumably trained visiting contractors hereabouts are incapable of even putting their disposable gloves in a bin…

 

[LuckyEddie]

When few people did it, the time served apprentice was probably OK. Deer Act and Food Standards Changed that - rightly so. Now lots of people without that time served aspect want to do stalking, so they need training. As do those who've been doing it wrong for years.

Fine, but even to get experience, according to FLS you need the certs in my earlier post.

So that rules out anyone below the age of 17 as you need a driving license.

Define doing it wrong? Bleeding and carrying out the gralloch not in the prescribed way but done in their own way, safely and efficiently for them. Who determines if that person is quite capable but doesn’t follow Best Practise.

Also Best Practise is out of date. Mine says bury the gralloch a metre deep. People leave it for the scavengers and scientists say you should leave it on the hillside to replenish nutrients that have been lost from the environment.

And if reports are correct the Forestry Scotland are dumping carcasses what does it matter? Just shoot the beast on the hillside and leave it.

 

[David Barker]

It looks like your BASC man did not have the teeth for this and sat on the fence just a bit. Mandatory training w3ill create a further problem in the take up of new deer stalkers. Kernahan stated that most deer managers in scotland were already trained to DSC1 I wounder if he got that number out of a lucky bag the same as we have a million deer. We have 16000 + firearm cert holder with rifles suitable for deer management. We have 2600 fully trained deer mangers in DSC. The numbers don't correlate with his statement. It is easy for all in the public sector to comment on items that will cost alot of money when they get all there's from the hard working tax payer. This will lead to more never entering in to deer Management and the ones that cant afford will just get a rifle and poach. Nature Scot are trying to stop government lowering the number of deer.

 

[J9Ned]

Slippery slope stuff this which will effectively bar youngsters coming into the sport or a keeping/deer mgmt. career. A young stalking friend of mine has no qualifications. His weapon handling and safety is superlative, his decision making in taking a safe, humane shot is shot is exceptionally sound and he consumes the venison himself with family/friends. He's a proper countryman to boot. He reduces deer numbers which is a necessary function. He doesn't drive and is not particularly well off. These rulings would see him selling his guns. Push back more!

 

[HonestJohn]

Trouble with these things is that the decision is usually made before the public ‘proposal’ - they just await sign off and the public ability to oppose them is just to make the public feel they actually have a say, which they don’t

 

[Mungo]

This week, BASC Scotland gave evidence to the Scottish Parliament’s Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. The session focused on the deer management elements of the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill.

In the article below BASC Scotland director, Peter Clark, warns that proposals in the Natural Environment Bill risk undermining deer management in Scotland with new barriers, unclear targets and a lack of financial support.

Mandatory training will shut out stalkers when Scotland needs them most

BASC Scotland director warns that proposals in the Natural Environment Bill risk undermining deer management in Scotland.

basc.org.uk

I’m very hopeful that the sheer weight of nonsense, coupled with the lack of resourcing, will bring this crashing down.

It’s a relic of the Bute House agreement with the Greens, and I get the sense that the SNP and NatureScot are increasingly looking for a face saving way to drop it.

There is some theorising that the recent Section 8 is a strategic attempt by NatureScot to demonstrate 3 things: (a) that necessary legislation exists; (b) that any attempt to impose state mandated culls will be prohibitively expensive because of legal action; and (c) there is widespread and meaningful public opposition to it.

 

[Foxyboy43]

I’m very hopeful that the sheer weight of nonsense, coupled with the lack of resourcing, will bring this crashing down.

It’s a relic of the Bute House agreement with the Greens, and I get the sense that the SNP and NatureScot are increasingly looking for a face saving way to drop it.

There is some theorising that the recent Section 8 is a strategic attempt by NatureScot to demonstrate 3 things: (a) that necessary legislation exists; (b) that any attempt to impose state mandated culls will be prohibitively expensive because of legal action; and (c) there is widespread and meaningful public opposition to it.

Gosh I hope you are right!

 

[Mungo]

Gosh I hope you are right!

I’m always right - haven’t you noticed?

 

[Utectok]

This week, BASC Scotland gave evidence to the Scottish Parliament’s Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. The session focused on the deer management elements of the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill.

In the article below BASC Scotland director, Peter Clark, warns that proposals in the Natural Environment Bill risk undermining deer management in Scotland with new barriers, unclear targets and a lack of financial support.

Mandatory training will shut out stalkers when Scotland needs them most

BASC Scotland director warns that proposals in the Natural Environment Bill risk undermining deer management in Scotland.

basc.org.uk

Well said Conner there is simply no evidence to support a change in legislation

 

[LuckyEddie]

I’m always right - haven’t you noticed?

You my wife’s twin by any chance

 

[Mungo]

Well said Conner there is simply no evidence to support a change in legislation

The absolutely batsh*t insane part of the legislation is the explicit rejection of any evidentiary requirement for imposing a cull.