We shouldn't be surprised by that. It's been the standard for dwcades. The Hunting Act, this nonsense to get rid of lead ammunition, passive smoking legislation etc etc
Mandatory training will shut out stalkers when Scotland needs them most
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
- Start date
Where is the evidence that the absence if mandatory training has caused a major problem in Scotland?
As far as I can see, there are only two good reasons for this: soft-Mugabeism and facilitating essentially fraudulent carbon-trading schemes.
sikamalc
Administrator
If this was the same event, it was a few years back now. At a guess 8 to 9 years ago.
I well remember it, as I was delivering carcasses to Ardgay game at the time, and had to wait as a veterinary inspection was taking place on the premises. I spoke to the owners son as to why they had been inspected so many times in the month I was up there.
He told me it was because some undercooked burgers had been produced in a hotel/Restaurant and that 6 people had been put in Raigmore hospital with ecoli.
I am all for more training and hygiene being kept at a high level, but compulsory training is the thin end of the wedge for me. It appears in Scotland they are moving ever closer to deer culling only being carried out by licenced people. We already have the fit and competent register, although I have never been asked to prove that I am on it.
Deer stalking in Scotland cannot afford to loose recreational and over seas stalkers. The impact on estates and small communities financially would be disastrous in my opinion.
HG do hold all the aces
I believe Rigby game is trying to gain a foothold in the market up here to challenge him.
He pays better prices and if you consistently produce high quality carcasses shot with Non toxic you can work with him on things.
He’s getting a fleet of vans sorted to start collecting.
I believe Rigby game is trying to gain a foothold in the market up here to challenge him.
He pays better prices and if you consistently produce high quality carcasses shot with Non toxic you can work with him on things.
He’s getting a fleet of vans sorted to start collecting.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
Just to play devils advocate here for a moment.
How many stalkers shooting a meaningful amount of deer per year don’t have the minimum proposed qualification?
If they suddenly didn’t do any more stalking would numbers of deer increase or would there be enough trained people to shoot that number of deer?
I’d suggest that in population terms there would be minimal difference made - certification shouldn’t be something to worry about, it’s actually very easy if you are competent to pass DSC1 and 2 and not ruinously expensive in the long term.
I hate increasing oversight and the need for qualifications but I do wonder if Scotland ‘needs’ stalkers without certificates as much as claimed in this thread especially if we take it over the next 10-15 years as some of the older generation filter out of the game (on the assumption that a lot of them are the ones without tickets).
I rather think that as a community we need to get a bit more real about the base ability of your average stalker to actually shoot enough deer to be deemed as managing a population in even the loosest terms.
Like I say - devils advocate but I think there’s something in it. Get on the train or get left behind
How many stalkers shooting a meaningful amount of deer per year don’t have the minimum proposed qualification?
If they suddenly didn’t do any more stalking would numbers of deer increase or would there be enough trained people to shoot that number of deer?
I’d suggest that in population terms there would be minimal difference made - certification shouldn’t be something to worry about, it’s actually very easy if you are competent to pass DSC1 and 2 and not ruinously expensive in the long term.
I hate increasing oversight and the need for qualifications but I do wonder if Scotland ‘needs’ stalkers without certificates as much as claimed in this thread especially if we take it over the next 10-15 years as some of the older generation filter out of the game (on the assumption that a lot of them are the ones without tickets).
I rather think that as a community we need to get a bit more real about the base ability of your average stalker to actually shoot enough deer to be deemed as managing a population in even the loosest terms.
Like I say - devils advocate but I think there’s something in it. Get on the train or get left behind
Whitefront
Well-Known Member
Possibly, but just for clarification, in the UK almost all the land within designated national parks is privately owned. The national park authorities have no say in deer management on such land.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Mandatory training is merely a reflection on the practices and expectations of the modern era, not just in relation to deer stalking but the wider world in which we live. In my opinion I believe that the shooting organisation's time would be better spent in campaigning against all those petty bureaucratic restrictions that distinguish S1 controls from S2 and accept the inevitably of mandatory safety and competence qualifications instead.
David Barker
Well-Known Member
Dan we have 2500 trained Deer managers hobby guys w3eekend worriers call them what you like. They shoot on average 3 female deer a year that is a grand total of 7500 deer that no one else can get to. We have 14.800 none trained fac holder who shoot the same on ground that no one else can get to. a grand total of 44,400 . Now if you think these little guys don't matter think again. This is about collecting data. Nothing to do with meat Hygiene deer welfare or any other excuse NS add in to the mix.
wildfowler.250
Well-Known Member
Let’s be honest , I’m sure the DSC 1 is a good course but it’s also £340.00 which is a lot of cash. Add that to the fact that folk are £198.00 for grant of a licence. Then you’ve got to get started up with a rifle, scope plus ammo is pricey.
I’m aware that it’s an expensive hobby in some respects. But there’s also plenty folk who know a farmer and want to do some stalking FOC. Not everyone is paying £800 a day for a stag.
If they wish for compulsory training, then really there should be grants available for everyone with a current FAC.
I may do the course some stage but that would probably get me 3 outings on the does. Saving up some invoices as proof of stalking prior to a FAC application seems a far better idea to me.
I’m aware that it’s an expensive hobby in some respects. But there’s also plenty folk who know a farmer and want to do some stalking FOC. Not everyone is paying £800 a day for a stag.
If they wish for compulsory training, then really there should be grants available for everyone with a current FAC.
I may do the course some stage but that would probably get me 3 outings on the does. Saving up some invoices as proof of stalking prior to a FAC application seems a far better idea to me.
wildfowler.250
Well-Known Member
This makes it sound like an animal abuse case. I would argue that the vast majority of deer are shot cleanly and more akin to carrying out slaughter work than causing harm and suffering.
Sure, paperwork if the deer isn’t going for personal consumption. That I can agree with.
tusker
Well-Known Member
thank feck i,m a grandfather.
Tusker
Lets not forget there are some dirty practices in use in our fold . They will still be among us after they have had training .
Happy stalker
Well-Known Member
Aye and it’s those that drag us all down sadly, and those who do present an unacceptable carcass should be targeted for training and if it doesn’t improve then ban them from presenting any carcasses simple.
What's going on over there. We shoot hundreds of thousands and yet to have a reported familly get sick. Apparenly we have TB in deer here according to the industry that supplies aerial 1080. More likely to get ill from a feed at KFC. Not in a hundred years did anyone get TB from a deer.
Ecoli. Maybe we are resistant. Its not even a feature of a forum here where everything is dramatized like a DPF failure on the Hilux.
Ecoli. Maybe we are resistant. Its not even a feature of a forum here where everything is dramatized like a DPF failure on the Hilux.
I believe the wild / feral deer population in the UK exceeds that of New Zealand, and we're culling around 350,000 per year.
We too have TB in deer, but it's not a significant issue.
Our deer hunting legislation is pretty relaxed (compared to, say, USA). There are no restrictions on the numbers that anyone can shoot, and they can all go into the food chain.
However, the cull numbers need to be increased (to something like 750,000 per year in order to stabilise the population, I have heard estimated), and it is therefore vital to secure and maintain a reliable market for the resulting venison. In order to secure such an outlet (eg, local authority procurement for school meals) we're going to have to be squeaky clean in respect of food hygiene. So, the question is, can the stalking industry self-regulate this and voluntarily achieve the required high standards, or are we going to be forced into compulsory training and qualification for stalkers?
That's what's going on over here.
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We have a commercial market. The two are seperate. It does undercut farmed venson prices in super market shelves even during the farming kill season in high swing.
Chopper and shooter overly efficient.
Besides the obvious another training scheme which always gets approval by a system that survives due to regulation work I can glean there is come carbon offset from reducing the numbers?
Then there is also talk of wolves? Sheep farmers obviously got rid of them. Seems that practical common sense has been buried by those with masters in rubber stamps.
Chopper and shooter overly efficient.
Besides the obvious another training scheme which always gets approval by a system that survives due to regulation work I can glean there is come carbon offset from reducing the numbers?
Then there is also talk of wolves? Sheep farmers obviously got rid of them. Seems that practical common sense has been buried by those with masters in rubber stamps.
Happy stalker
Well-Known Member
So there is no EU influence here?
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