My new custom rifle is driving me crazy, help needed!

[randello88]

that's a hellish accurate rifle.
Ditch the paper targets and set out some steel gongs at the same size kill zone as your intended targets. A roe would be about 6inch round, fox 4inch and a red about 10inch. Hit them consistently and ignore the group. When you miss 2 out of 10 shots that'll be you maximum field range.
Enjoy you new rifle.

Man that range would end up being 150 meters with this behaviour of the rifle

I am not joking. And many times bullet would impact not in the center of the target. This rifle is just unpredictable outside range conditions.

 

[Demetrius]

Have you checked the scope? (I haven't read the whole thread...) If it will print a 1 MOA 5 consecutive shot group, there's not much wrong with the rifle itself.

D.

 

[randello88]

Have you checked the scope? (I haven't read the whole thread...) If it will print a 1 MOA 5 consecutive shot group, there's not much wrong with the rifle itself.

D.

Not one MOA, more like 0.1-0.2 from a bench. But every little minor impercebtible variation in hold will shift POI and will open up groups a lot, as if the rifle is just nervous, rigid, not tolerant of anything. With a bayo cronograph the POI shifter almost half a meter at 100, this says something to how sensitive that barrel is

The scope is fine, i checked it 100 times

 

[old keeper]

I might have got this wrong, but I believe you built the rifle, is that so?

I only ask because if a gunsmith had built it, by now, it would be back with him to get it sorted, and if he couldn't, you would walk away.

Like many others on here, the rifle appears to shoot pretty well, but if you're not happy with it now, after all the hassle, I suspect you never will be.

 

[randello88]

I might have got this wrong, but I believe you built the rifle, is that so?

I only ask because if a gunsmith had built it, by now, it would be back with him to get it sorted, and if he couldn't, you would walk away.

Like many others on here, the rifle appears to shoot pretty well, but if you're not happy with it now, after all the hassle, I suspect you never will be.

It was built by a very reputable smith here in Italy. I choose the parts but we discussed in a very detailed way about everything, every little detail of the build. It was very nice process. The smith is a very good professional, he makes some small batches of rifles for italian tier 1 special forces. Overall i had and still have a lot of trust in him, he is one of the only smith Who really knows what he is talking about here in Italy. I just wrote him because I want everything checked.
Yes, i really hoped it was my fault but today i accepted that this rifle is simply exceptionally accurate but at the same time very, very picky to how you handle it. like a very beautiful woman. Better off with a less beautiful but calmer one, that’s why i will sell this rifle most likely and that’s why i am still single. Maybe as a very beautiful woman without a significative amount of craziness doesn’t exist, a rigid and not too heavy precision rifle suitable for stalking doesn’t exist either my bergara, all beaten up, is like a old and ugly woman but my God it is so reliable and consistent. It prints 1/3 MOA groups all day long but with only one commercial ammo (again Made by geco) but with that one it is le that. It never ever gave me problems and killed everything i pointed it to from 30 to 250 meters. Definitely not as sexy as this custom bitch here though

 

[randello88]

I might have got this wrong, but I believe you built the rifle, is that so?

I only ask because if a gunsmith had built it, by now, it would be back with him to get it sorted, and if he couldn't, you would walk away.

Like many others on here, the rifle appears to shoot pretty well, but if you're not happy with it now, after all the hassle, I suspect you never will be.

It shoots very well but only in perfect conditions. If you had a rifle which shoots tiny groups but then you out it on a backpack at the range and it goes 1 MOA or more and with POI which shifts almost from group to group at least 1 cm? Every time you get up and go back shooting POI shifts, even paying attention to the position. This at the range, imagine what happens when hunting. Once i did a shot standing and resting on a three branch on a roe, 207 m, the bullet hole looked like it was placed by hand in the perfect location. Another time i shot a for buck at 245 m, prone, in the most awkward position, all food ed up between 3 small threes, resting the buttpad basically half on my shoulder, half in the grass. Again, perfect shot placement, that was the nicests buck i have ever caught. Another time i shot a buck, slowly moving, at 180 on the triple using the backpack as a rest for my firing hand. Perfect shot. A few times i made nevi shots on roes at max 120 m, all spine hits. Most of you guys has stories like this i imagine. Hunting in the hillside forces you to shoot in awkward positions or go home empty handed half of the times. With this rifle, being so sensitive to even minor changes in position (i tried to replicate the same one also over the backpack at the range today), you can’t take those shots. Imagine half of that ultra sensitive buttstock in the grass, probably the bullet would take a U turn and come back to me as much as POI would shift. Either you shoot from the road as many “hunters” do here, resting on the car as if it was a bench, or you find a more consistent rifle. After 400 rounds that’s my conclusion.

I am surprised not to see these mind of experience more often considering how many people use custom rifles for hunting.

That’s a shame because i really love this rifle, it’s the perfect rifle, ON PAPER

 

[Demetrius]

Before getting rid of it, it might be worth buying some time at one of the bespoke hunting rifle guys who can watch you mount the rifle and advise on hold, or any adjustments to the stock/trigger that might be needed.

D.

 

[gelert]

To a layman like me the two groups you've shown look like a wet dream. The 100mtr and then that 3 shot 400mts off a back pack is not to be sniffed at. Based on those, most of us on here, myself included would be more than happy to take that rifle into the field hunting. Have you had a look at getting some professional tuition incase it's user error without me trying to teach you to suck eggs of course? https://www.wmsfirearmstraining.com/

 

[Heym SR20]

I suspect the biggest problem with this rifle and shooter combination is stock fit. Poor stock fit, or a stock that is heavily biased towards say prone shooting will cause huge inconsistencies.

A traditional hunting rifle stock may not the optimum for precision accuracy off the bench or prone like a target or benchrest stock. But it provides good hunting accuracy from a whole range of different positions and set ups.

Edit : and I have yet to shoot a 308 that I like. They do seem to be quite snappy in terms of recoil, a bit like the 243. I much prefer the dynamics of the 7x57 - it is a much smoother recoil and far more forgiving. Perhaps not quite as accurate as the 308, but accuracy in a hunting rifle means can you put a bullet through that Roe buck’s kill zone that has just stepped out and is staring at you. The rifle needs to shoot where you are looking, naturally come up to point of aim all without you thinking about it. That for me is an accurate hunting rifle.

 

[randello88]

To a layman like me the two groups you've shown look like a wet dream. The 100mtr and then that 3 shot 400mts off a back pack is not to be sniffed at. Based on those, most of us on here, myself included would be more than happy to take that rifle into the field hunting. Have you had a look at getting some professional tuition incase it's user error without me trying to teach you to suck eggs of course? https://www.wmsfirearmstraining.com/

That group was from a bench, where the rifle always shoots well. From the backpack that group would have been at least 15-20 times bigger

But if you want the rifle it is for sale, from a bench can shoot like this all day! Ahah

 

[randello88]

I suspect the biggest problem with this rifle and shooter combination is stock fit. Poor stock fit, or a stock that is heavily biased towards say prone shooting will cause huge inconsistencies.

A traditional hunting rifle stock may not the optimum for precision accuracy off the bench or prone like a target or benchrest stock. But it provides good hunting accuracy from a whole range of different positions and set ups.

Edit : and I have yet to shoot a 308 that I like. They do seem to be quite snappy in terms of recoil, a bit like the 243. I much prefer the dynamics of the 7x57 - it is a much smoother recoil and far more forgiving. Perhaps not quite as accurate as the 308, but accuracy in a hunting rifle means can you put a bullet through that Roe buck’s kill zone that has just stepped out and is staring at you. The rifle needs to shoot where you are looking, naturally come up to point of aim all without you thinking about it. That for me is an accurate hunting rifle.

I agree, for me too. Who knows this is the only 308 Who does like this with me.. maybe the load is very hot and the stock is too rigid. Actually i can’t feel powder moving in the case and it kicks pretty bad.

 

[Utectok]

You say you have never had an unexpected bullet placement in 60 animals shot, clearly you are a most exceptional shot with your rifles. I shoot 60 odd deer a year mostly off sticks but some of bipods and a few freehand or off trees walls etc. I practice a lot and compete to a respectable standard in hunting matches. But I get unexpected results yes do I miss yes usually when rushed I think you have an unrealistic bubble you live in or you are perhaps a world class shooter? In which case congratulations. If you don’t like the rifle go back to your old one.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

actually when groups go very bad (I mean over the 1- 1.5 MOA i see in field conditions) is because i start getting frustrated and i start shooting faster, maybe not letting the rifle cool down properly.. sometimes though I shot like that and then, always without letting it cool down, i change position to a more ideal one, not rushing shots, and groups become very small again.. so most likely it is not a barrel heating issue

You have answered your own question right there!

 

[randello88]

You say you have never had an unexpected bullet placement in 60 animals shot, clearly you are a most exceptional shot with your rifles. I shoot 60 odd deer a year mostly off sticks but some of bipods and a few freehand or off trees walls etc. I practice a lot and compete to a respectable standard in hunting matches. But I get unexpected results yes do I miss yes usually when rushed I think you have an unrealistic bubble you live in or you are perhaps a world class shooter? In which case congratulations. If you don’t like the rifle go back to your old one.

Man i don’t know what to say, that’s what I have experienced. I always takes realistic shots and only in the last couple years, being confident in me and in my equipment, i tried some less than ideal shots with success. For example i would have never shot a walking roe from 150 meters from a trippe a couple years ago, last summer i did because i was feeling confident.m (he was disappearing in a wood and there was only a small spot to shot him between the high grass and the wood). So i think in never had unexpected results because i try to not overdo. For example i never shot an animal while covered even partially by vegetation and i never shot standing without the tripod beyond 60 meters or so

I don’t think you have to be a world class shooter in order to reliably kill roes inside 250 meters.. maybe i will miss once one day, most likely, especially stretching out the distances, for now it didn’t happen, what can i say.. i don’t shoot as many roes as most of the people on this forum do of course. My statistic is based on more or less 60-70 roes (i didn’t count)

 

[randello88]

You have answered your own question right there!

Yes but zero still shifts for very minor inconsistencies and by sometimes inches.. that’s the big deal for me

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Yes but zero still shifts for very minor inconsistencies and by sometimes inches.. that’s the big deal for me

Ok I will tell you how I zero my rifle and hopefully it will make your life easier.

Go to the range, put target up at 100 m, fire three rounds to 0 which is normal for me done!

Then, as far as I am concerned, my rifle is zeroed at 100m , and then don’t touch it. I don’t go to the range and waste bullets on paper and I don’t touch that zero, until I clean the rifle every 50 rounds.

After 50 rounds clean rifle Re- check zero

In other words, rinse and repeat

That’s worked for me with custom rifles and regular shop bought rifles and even worked on a £60 CZ .270.

 

[VSS]

Ok I will tell you how I zero my rifle and hopefully it will make your life easier.

Go to the range, put target up at 100 m, fire three rounds to 0 which is normal for me done!

Then, as far as I am concerned, my rifle is zeroed at 100m , and then don’t touch it. I don’t go to the range and waste bullets on paper and I don’t touch that zero, until I clean the rifle every 50 rounds.

After 50 rounds clean rifle Re- check zero

In other words, rinse and repeat

That’s worked for me with custom rifles and regular shop bought rifles and even worked on a £60 CZ .270.

Sounds like you're a bit heavy on the cleaning.
Other than that, your regime looks just about spot on

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Sounds like you're a bit heavy on the cleaning.
Other than that, your regime looks just about spot on

Every 50 when shooting lead or copper I’ve done it that way ever since I started reloading force of habit.

 

[randello88]

Ok I will tell you how I zero my rifle and hopefully it will make your life easier.

Go to the range, put target up at 100 m, fire three rounds to 0 which is normal for me done!

Then, as far as I am concerned, my rifle is zeroed at 100m , and then don’t touch it. I don’t go to the range and waste bullets on paper and I don’t touch that zero, until I clean the rifle every 50 rounds.

After 50 rounds clean rifle Re- check zero

In other words, rinse and repeat

That’s worked for me with custom rifles and regular shop bought rifles and even worked on a £60 CZ .270.

That’s what I have always done, all those testing started because i noticed a strong tendency to poi shifts both at the range and in a single field test: i was hunting, keeping shots inside 200
For good measire being a new rifle, i took a for buck and then i decided to shoot a couple shots to confirm zero with the bipod resting on something that wasn’t concrete. Both went high 1 and a half inch above what I was expecting. That’s when (luckily) i decided to do some more tests and the problem showed. 1.5 inches outside POA at 200 can easily translate in missing a quartiering roe or wounding it, that’s not acceptable for me. With my old rifle i went to the range maybe 10 times in 8 years to check zero after deep cleaning after rain. For me a rifle is just a tool and it must work reliably. I couldn’t care less about shooting groups at the range if not to confirm my tool is up to the task and this rifle doesn’t seen to be

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

That’s what I have always done, all those testing started because i noticed a strong tendency to poi shifts both at the range and in a single field test: i was hunting, keeping shots inside 200
For good measire being a new rifle, i took a for buck and then i decided to shoot a couple shots to confirm zero with the bipod resting on something that wasn’t concrete. Both went high 1 and a half inch above what I was expecting. That’s when (luckily) i decided to do some more tests and the problem showed. 1.5 inches outside POA at 200 can easily translate in missing a quartiering roe or wounding it, that’s not acceptable for me. With my old rifle i went to the range maybe 10 times in 8 years to check zero after deep cleaning after rain. For me a rifle is just a tool and it must work reliably

Why shoot at longer range? Why not shoot them at. 50m or closer that is proper hunting