randello88
Well-Known Member
It would be amazing. Do you know someone in particular offering this service?
My new custom rifle is driving me crazy, help needed!
- Thread starter randello88
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randello88
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the confirmation. Probably i was just too spoiled by my old rifle which didn’t show this “issue”, possibily because it has a less rigid stock (which is also more sticky and slide less on a pack) and probably because it shoots a milder load (785 m/s vs 825 m/s of the load I am shooting now). Also with that one i remember i was always keeping an hand over the lateral upper part of the forend or just underneath the forend itself. I should really try to hold the forend again. Problem is that all
These test should be limited to 20 rounds shooting sessions and no more. Actually just after more or less 10-15 rounds i have seen groups opening up in every range session, especially when shooting prone
jthyttin
Well-Known Member
I wasn't really joking. You went on and bought a tool that requires lot of boring base work. You don't want to put in that base work. You want technical solution that help eliminate or at least not to amplify shooter error. Weight in rifle is the easiest solution, and to some extent only solution (other solutions incluce the weight).
The current cream of the crop in positional shooting while reducing the need for certain fundamentals is PRS. And the solution there is (properly balanced) weight. Of course it still needs practice, and somewhat different kind of practice, but I bet good money you'd be happier shooting a PRS style rifle than your current one. Carrying is another matter...
Have you tried groups without the rear bag at the range? For comparison?
Utectok
Well-Known Member
For someone like me who shoots quite a lot and considers myself a reasonable standard of shot I’m amazed quite often how badly I can miss. Putting down a 2moa groups is well in my capabilities! It’s easy to rush or not take enough care over shots particularly in the field. It’s easy to get frustrated and make matters worse.
I’m not the best shot in the world but I’m capable of being the worst. Mostly it’s a head game, although in my experience the biggest factor in improvement in consistency with my shooting was getting a good quality properly fitted stock and a properly weighted rifle.
Light rifles and poor stocks are hard to shoot consistently.
I’m not the best shot in the world but I’m capable of being the worst. Mostly it’s a head game, although in my experience the biggest factor in improvement in consistency with my shooting was getting a good quality properly fitted stock and a properly weighted rifle.
Light rifles and poor stocks are hard to shoot consistently.
randello88
Well-Known Member
Oh i see!
I definitely don’t want a PRS rifle, i am here to try to understand if this phenomenon i never observed before is something to be expected, if it is normal for a rifle to behave like this. If i found out that the rifle is likely faulty for being too picky about positions i would definitely sell it. If, as most people here confirmed, it is something normal and i just have to deal with it with this rifle and similar ones in the future, i will learn how to deal with it.
of course increasing the weight will make the rifle easier to shoot in general, of course shooting a even milder caliber would help but i choose this weight and this cartridge for specific reasons and i don’t want something else at the moment. I am concerned about this rifle here, i want to understand if for a rifle set up like this is normal that the slightiest variation of position of the real bag for example gives some vertical shift of POI of even a couple cm at 100, if it is normal that if i just don’t out all the focus in one shot, groups can open up to 1 MOA and, If I mess up, even to 2 MOA, or if this rifle, being precisely built, is more picky as far as positions and hold
I don’t care about being happy shooting, i care about killing animals with this rifle for the next years. We will see if this will be the case!
randello88
Well-Known Member
I didn’t but i plan to do so, shooting from bipod and from the backpack. The rabbit hole never ends!
randello88
Well-Known Member
I see. Probably with the other rifle the combination of shooting a milder load (more or less 10/20% less recoil) with a plastic stock and with only bags of backpack it was more consistent also in the field since the conditions from front and rear rest are more similar to backpack and improvised rear rest than with a bipod and rear bag. I have to try
1) bipod with hand instead of rear bag
2) bipod without any rear support
3) same for backpack
Then no more range and i should just go shooting in field positions
If I could shoot sub 2 moa consistently, as it seems you can, I'd be very happy.
You have shown that you are capable of that, and you have shown that, under ideal conditions, the rifle is capable of better than that, so I can't really see what you're getting exercised about.
I'd just go stalking if I was you, and stop worrying about it.
You have shown that you are capable of that, and you have shown that, under ideal conditions, the rifle is capable of better than that, so I can't really see what you're getting exercised about.
I'd just go stalking if I was you, and stop worrying about it.
randello88
Well-Known Member
It is adjusted correctly! Actually a few times i forgot to set it back to 100 m after shooting 400 m and it was shooting the same very small groups even without a proper parallax setting.
Go figure
Can you believe i have no pics of it at all?
I will d take one thoughYou may well find that the bag is assisting you more than you think when it comes to shooting small groups.
randello88
Well-Known Member
I should also buy a decent front bag because the caldwell one i have is terrible. That said, the most strada and repeatable position for now has been the bench with bipod one. I have never had a single flier with that setup and very thight groups. Probably i need to shoot a little
Bit higher from the ground using a bipod but of course this will not be repeatable in the field. No problems anyway, i will do the last range test to check the dope better and i will go hunting Keeping shots inside 200 m (which is totally adequate for the summer with high grass) and i will do some field test now and then to get more practice in field positions and to see how the rifle performs.
randello88
Well-Known Member
I update you guys, today i did some field test, shooting from the backpack. The rifle is definitely too sensitive to any minor change in hold and as it is now it is unsuitable for hunting. I have never had issues with any rifle, of course there is some inconsistency due to field positions but this rifle is just too reactive and sensitive to them, to the point that it is not capable to tolerate the human factor in field positions. And this with good fundamentals (at least decent ones), having shot every mind of rifle and pistol imaginable and more than 30k round in my life, easily. This is not normal. I tried resting the rifle on a backpack in controller conditions even at the range. Other than the fact that groups open up at 1 moa or more (even 2 sometimes), groups wonder all over the place, with the usual maximum spread at 100 of more than 2 MOA. A minute later i went to the bench and printed this 3 shots group at 400m, so barre heat, fouling and many other variables are out of question (with many other confirmations)
I have no idea what to do lol
I have no idea what to do lol
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HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
If you don’t trust your rifle in the field, you’ll never feel good squeezing the trigger on a live animal. Sell it, accept the loss, go back to the Bergara. Never buy a .308 again
that's a hellish accurate rifle.
Ditch the paper targets and set out some steel gongs at the same size kill zone as your intended targets. A roe would be about 6inch round, fox 4inch and a red about 10inch. Hit them consistently and ignore the group. When you miss 2 out of 10 shots that'll be you maximum field range.
Enjoy you new rifle.
Ditch the paper targets and set out some steel gongs at the same size kill zone as your intended targets. A roe would be about 6inch round, fox 4inch and a red about 10inch. Hit them consistently and ignore the group. When you miss 2 out of 10 shots that'll be you maximum field range.
Enjoy you new rifle.
randello88
Well-Known Member
I will probably buy another 308 since i love the caliber, it’s perfect for my applications and i shot it in many rifles without issues (Includono the vergata which is in 308). 308 is probably the valiber i shot 99% of time in my hunts, i know the carteidge pretty well. This rifle has something wrong, 2/3 MOA in the field are not what i am used to, not even close. Every single time i tried the zero of any other rifle of mine in the field, shooting from a backpack, the bullet landed in the exact place i was expecting it to. And same for shot placement on deer. In many years of hunting, shooting from ever changing positions, i have never seen an impact which Made me wonder, not even once in 60 animals i shot (more or less). So the options are two:
1) all my other rifles are magical
2) this one is too rigid and sensitive to minimal (and impossible to account for) position al changes
Just to let you understand how this system is sensitive, when i mounted a bayonet chronograf it was print ing sub moa groups but 45 (yes, 45!) cm higher on the target at 100 m. I had to go back to 50 to see impacts on paper because bullets where flying over the whole target.
Today i trued different positions on a backpack, just before the groups you see there at 400. Not even one of the groups centered on the zero with a variation of POI of 2/3 moa overall. This was not an improvised field position: i was on a backpack at the range with all
The time to take shots and reducing variables. This doesn’t happen with anyone of my RIfles, even my ar15 at 100 with iron sights group much more consistently than this. Heck, even the mosin of my brother is more consistent than this with irons at 100, shooting from three branches.
One time the group is one the left, one time 3 cm up, one time 2 cm down, one time 2 cm right from the POA.
I think there are 2 reasons:
1) the whole system is too rigid (i wouldnt say too light because its a 10-11 pounds 308 and the recoil is much more brutal than what i was used to
2) the ammo is certainly spicier but again, this doesn’t justify what i am seeing
3) maybe there is a problem with the action to stock coupling (it is a manners stock with mini chassis on a defiance action)
I am now sure that there is some problem with the rifle, i have to understand which one exactly
1) all my other rifles are magical
2) this one is too rigid and sensitive to minimal (and impossible to account for) position al changes
Just to let you understand how this system is sensitive, when i mounted a bayonet chronograf it was print ing sub moa groups but 45 (yes, 45!) cm higher on the target at 100 m. I had to go back to 50 to see impacts on paper because bullets where flying over the whole target.
Today i trued different positions on a backpack, just before the groups you see there at 400. Not even one of the groups centered on the zero with a variation of POI of 2/3 moa overall. This was not an improvised field position: i was on a backpack at the range with all
The time to take shots and reducing variables. This doesn’t happen with anyone of my RIfles, even my ar15 at 100 with iron sights group much more consistently than this. Heck, even the mosin of my brother is more consistent than this with irons at 100, shooting from three branches.
One time the group is one the left, one time 3 cm up, one time 2 cm down, one time 2 cm right from the POA.
I think there are 2 reasons:
1) the whole system is too rigid (i wouldnt say too light because its a 10-11 pounds 308 and the recoil is much more brutal than what i was used to
2) the ammo is certainly spicier but again, this doesn’t justify what i am seeing
3) maybe there is a problem with the action to stock coupling (it is a manners stock with mini chassis on a defiance action)
I am now sure that there is some problem with the rifle, i have to understand which one exactly
randello88
Well-Known Member
It can be normal if the aim is not steady or if you are in a really awkward position or you have very bad fundamentals (like most hunters here in Italy) but with a dead steady aim and a rifle capable of one hole groups, i doubt that SLIGHT variations of hold can produce such a mess. I have not been able to zero the rifle in 400 rounds i shot because of the inconsistency of POI.
For sure no one of my other RIfles does this
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