Hook'N'Bullet
Well-Known Member
ah okay not to worry.
Negligent or accidental discharge fear
- Thread starter Sheprador1973
- Start date
ah okay not to worry.
Orion
Well-Known Member
Yeah that's what my concern was when I read it. But is the Fourth Horseman not doing that in his post (#69)perhaps I read it wrong. both situations, the guns not cocked
No, the cock/decock arrangement on many single shot, break actions, Blasers, Merkel Helix, etc. are completely different arrangements and the firing pin isn't held against the primer by the spring.
kieran222
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I always thought that. Until it happened. There are two types of shooters. Those who have had an ND, and those who WILL have an ND. When it happens, the mitigating factors are muzzle awareness and safe area.
Anyone who starts thinking it can't happen to them is a bad accident waiting to happen.
Humble Pie
I was always told that there were two kinds of shooters. . . . .those who have had an ND, and those who will have an ND! I'd always pooh-poohed this assertion as I consider myself a very safe and pretty competent gun. Backstops are non-negotiable, muzzle awareness the same, rifle is unloaded...www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
Fully agree, mechanical failure can never be ruled out. I think that anyone who has suggested that best practice, etc. can eliminate it is deluded. Best practice and usual precautions will only mitigate against injury/damage from ND from a mechanical failure, it won't prevent it.
The poster has been ridiculed by a number of "experts" who have claimed that they haven't ever had an ND. Implying that it would never happen to them, very odd.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I have had two accidental discharges in my stalking career and witnessed one other
1) I had crawled into a buck, got comfortable and with the rifle pointing at the backstop and not at the buck I pushed the safety catch forward, then pushed the trigger forward to set it. As the trigger was pushed forward rifle went off. Given the rifle was pointing into a safe place no damage was done. I took the rifle straight to a gunsmith - there was a grass seed stuck in the set trigger mechanism that prevented it from cocking properly so it went of straight away. We disabled the set mechanism.
2) I was on a guided stalk and my guide was insistent that I load one up the spout and then carry it muzzle up on my shoulder. The rifle has a trigger blocking safety on the left hand side behind the bolt handle. It is a left handed rifle. We were constantly pushing through young pines, and I had moved it my right shoulder. Safety must have caught in my clothing and as I pushed through some pine trees something must have caught in the trigger - rifle went off into the air. Fortunately there was sea behind.
That was the last time I will ever carry a rifle with one up the spout, safety on and rifle on shoulder with barrel pointing in the air.
3) I was once with another hunter in Africa. We were tracking down a cattle killing lion and I was with a former member of the Rhodesian special forces. He had an old BRNO 375 adn he insisted on carry it with chamber loaded, but with the spring eased even when in a vehicle. We were in the open landrover, I was driving on footpath through the bush, he was sitting in the passenger seat with butt against the floor and the muzzle up. To him I was just a young pom who didn't have a clue. We went over a bump - my ears rang for a few days.
I carry my rifle with the chamber empty until I am expecting a shot. Only then is it loaded. If it is loaded it is either in my hand, or slung barrel down with my hand on the barrel controlling its direction. If I am with somebody else, then only the rifle that will be taking a shot is loaded, and this is in front - carried muzzle down and forwards. And I could n't care less whether or not its got a decocker etc.
Yes I have bumped deer that I have n't been able to shoot because the rifle was n't loaded. But in most cases a bumped deer is already spooked and usually offers little chance of a shot anyhow.
1) I had crawled into a buck, got comfortable and with the rifle pointing at the backstop and not at the buck I pushed the safety catch forward, then pushed the trigger forward to set it. As the trigger was pushed forward rifle went off. Given the rifle was pointing into a safe place no damage was done. I took the rifle straight to a gunsmith - there was a grass seed stuck in the set trigger mechanism that prevented it from cocking properly so it went of straight away. We disabled the set mechanism.
2) I was on a guided stalk and my guide was insistent that I load one up the spout and then carry it muzzle up on my shoulder. The rifle has a trigger blocking safety on the left hand side behind the bolt handle. It is a left handed rifle. We were constantly pushing through young pines, and I had moved it my right shoulder. Safety must have caught in my clothing and as I pushed through some pine trees something must have caught in the trigger - rifle went off into the air. Fortunately there was sea behind.
That was the last time I will ever carry a rifle with one up the spout, safety on and rifle on shoulder with barrel pointing in the air.
3) I was once with another hunter in Africa. We were tracking down a cattle killing lion and I was with a former member of the Rhodesian special forces. He had an old BRNO 375 adn he insisted on carry it with chamber loaded, but with the spring eased even when in a vehicle. We were in the open landrover, I was driving on footpath through the bush, he was sitting in the passenger seat with butt against the floor and the muzzle up. To him I was just a young pom who didn't have a clue. We went over a bump - my ears rang for a few days.
I carry my rifle with the chamber empty until I am expecting a shot. Only then is it loaded. If it is loaded it is either in my hand, or slung barrel down with my hand on the barrel controlling its direction. If I am with somebody else, then only the rifle that will be taking a shot is loaded, and this is in front - carried muzzle down and forwards. And I could n't care less whether or not its got a decocker etc.
Yes I have bumped deer that I have n't been able to shoot because the rifle was n't loaded. But in most cases a bumped deer is already spooked and usually offers little chance of a shot anyhow.
Going to admit to two accidental discharges, and wait for the barrage.
The first was with an brake barrel air rifle I lent to a friend, after he retuned it, I got it out of the slip and started to clean it.
I Forget to check if it was loaded and when wiping the trigger with and oily rag it went off and shot a whole into my sofa. Always check guns are empty when handed them!
The second was with a 6.5 x 55 tikka t3, I had the rifle loaded on the passenger seat, (truck was stationary) this rifle had a very light trigger. Unlike the howa I have replaced this rifle with, you have to push the safety all the way forward to lift the bolt and extract a round from the chamber. My coat which was underneath the rifle must have touched the trigger and the rifle went off and shot a hole in my footwell and lodged in the brake caliper.
I few months after I bumped into the person I bought the rifle from and he’s said he’d had the same experience with the rifle and his van, though missing the caliper.
Lessons here are mussle awareness and don’t adjust your trigger crazy light,
The first was with an brake barrel air rifle I lent to a friend, after he retuned it, I got it out of the slip and started to clean it.
I Forget to check if it was loaded and when wiping the trigger with and oily rag it went off and shot a whole into my sofa. Always check guns are empty when handed them!
The second was with a 6.5 x 55 tikka t3, I had the rifle loaded on the passenger seat, (truck was stationary) this rifle had a very light trigger. Unlike the howa I have replaced this rifle with, you have to push the safety all the way forward to lift the bolt and extract a round from the chamber. My coat which was underneath the rifle must have touched the trigger and the rifle went off and shot a hole in my footwell and lodged in the brake caliper.
I few months after I bumped into the person I bought the rifle from and he’s said he’d had the same experience with the rifle and his van, though missing the caliper.
Lessons here are mussle awareness and don’t adjust your trigger crazy light,
Back in the 60s me and my mate we were about 12, aquired an old 22rf bolt action that used to fire when you pressed the bolt down the final half inch.We shot quite a few rabbits with that old gun, iron sights of course no telescopic sights then.We had it about a year and never used the trigger and we were both quite accurate using the bolt as the trigger.Until we got caught with it and it was taken off us..
Orion
Well-Known Member
Only when it was frosty.Yes, but did you use thermal?
Chasey I think Blaser or not climbing into a seat with a chambered round isn’t a good habit especially if you also have use of another make of rifle, should someone you are mentoring see this and think it’s the norm they might not be a Blaser owner so you are teaching potentially a bad habit.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
I've been stalking with some blokes and found that the best thing to do to keep myself safe is strap a barn door on my back, you could try a cows arse if they're banjo players.
Climbing into or out of a highseat is always bolt open for me, whether there's rounds in the mag or not.
Of course winters were colder then we wore long John's tooYes, but did you use thermal?
Sorry, but that simply isn't true - I have handled weapons of all kinds, from air pistols up to 120m Challenger 2 Main Armaments over the course of the last 40 years and all the care in the world won't prevent a mechanical failure.
I have had but one AD in those 40 years and that was quite recently out stalking. The rifle was on quad sticks and I had just dropped a roe buck. I reloaded, applied the safety and waited until all movement stopped. I then approached the target with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction and after establishing that the animal was dead I went to unload, again with the muzzle in a safe direction. As I released the safety the weapon fired a .243 into the ground about 10' in front of me. Mechanical failure caused by a foreign body within the mechanism - no negligence, no poor drills.
I have also witnessed an AD from a Challenger 2 on the ranges at Lulworth Cove - mechanical failure again. On that occasion the muzzle was not pointing into the ground and a KE round went winging out to sea - probably landed about 12-14 miles away.
You can mitigate the effects of an AD/ND by having safe drills and total muzzle awareness but you cannot ever be 100% certain of not having one. To think otherwise is asking for trouble.
MattJ
Well-Known Member
I have read this thread with great interest and I agree that ADs can happen, but I believe that NDs are far more likely. (This may be due to the foreign gentleman who put a pistol round through the edge of my boot when I was learning to be a range supervisor some 40+ years ago.)
As far as stalking is concerned though, apart from the loading/unloading scenario, I believe that the most dangerous time might be just after a successful shot. I vividly remember chambering another round on one occasion in case a follow up was needed. Full of adrenalin, walked forward, found the deer, did the gralloch etc. and found that I had left a loaded rifle in failing light with the safety off.
I'd be willing to bet that I am not the only one who has done that. Lesson learned though!
As far as stalking is concerned though, apart from the loading/unloading scenario, I believe that the most dangerous time might be just after a successful shot. I vividly remember chambering another round on one occasion in case a follow up was needed. Full of adrenalin, walked forward, found the deer, did the gralloch etc. and found that I had left a loaded rifle in failing light with the safety off.
I'd be willing to bet that I am not the only one who has done that. Lesson learned though!
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