New Sporting Rifle tracking directory

[BMHpup]

Have you seen in this month's issue of Sporting Rifle that they are launching a new tracking directory which will be printed in the magazine each month?

I think it sounds like a good idea and is long overdue!

Are you going to join?

 

[SussexFallow]

Saw this a couple of days ago and in theory a good idea.
I wonder how many stalkers will actually use this service as most seem to be very secretive people and maybe too proud to use someone else to find a poorly shot deer!! the other point was how do we actually decide on our dogs level of experience ?? Will we have every tom dick and harry with a new pup who wants to push it like a proud parent listed ?? I think so but hey its a start!
Will I join ?? Probably

ATB Steve

 

[JAYB]

Have you seen in this month's issue of Sporting Rifle that they are launching a new tracking directory which will be printed in the magazine each month?

I think it sounds like a good idea and is long overdue!

Are you going to join?

How come your first post is not an introduction but what could be considered a bit of a leg up for a shooting mag? It's a good job I am not suspicious

John

 

[Thar]

Shame sporting rifle is involved, if it had been any other magazine I might have given it a bit more attention.

ATB

Tahr

 

[sikamalc]

Dont see anyone putting their name to this my dog is to precious to me, and making it known to all and sundry might also leave you open to theft of a valuable dog!!

And as JAYB has pointed out, no Introduction from you YET!! Please do so as is required when joining this site, otherwise your membership might be short lived.

Thank you

Sikamalc

 

[BMHpup]

Apologies. I did not realise that an introduction was a prerequisite of posting.

A bit about me, well I started stalking about 2 years ago. I have my DSC level 1 and recently bought my first tracking dog, a Bavarian Mountain Hound.

 

[JC275]

You wouldn't happen to be Sporting Rifles new star journalist would you BMHpup? JC

 

[SussexFallow]

She may well be!!!

ATB

 

[Orion]

She may well be!!!

Is that a fair cop and a hands up then?

Maybe she/he can give us the info on what criteria and vetting procedure they are going to apply to those who decide to go on the list - or can I grab the nearest rescue Greyhound from Spain and run it on deer in a semi-legal fashion?

I'm with Sikamalc on this, it's too open to abuse and potentially dangerous for bona-fide owners of trained tracking dogs.

 

[BMHpup]

Who needs a tracking dog when you guys can sniff out a hack?!

I have just joined Sporting Rifle as managing editor after 3 years as news editor on Shooting Times. Please excuse the covert approach but I wanted non-biased views. There are lots of very experienced stalkers on this forum so thought that this would be the ideal place to canvas opinion.

In the USA there is a similar directory. Monthly magazine Georgia Outdoor News lists dog handlers by county and provides the same information on their website. Sporting Rifle is hoping to do the same.

In response to Bordersman: I would hope that stalkers might actually encourage those with inexperienced tracking dogs. As I have already mentioned, I have a young dog and would be thrilled to have the opportunity to use her on a live trail. Is it not important to support newbies?
While Sporting Rifle does not accept any responsibility for the ability of the dog handler or dog itself, stalkers using people listed in the directory should discuss their competency beforehand. Personally, I would insist on discussing the stalker's expectations before I set out in search of his wounded deer. Conversely, if I called on the services of a dog handler listed in the directory and they turned out to be very inexperienced, I would still feel pleased that I was able to offer them the practice.

In response to silkamalc: All directories could potentially be abused. But I would hope that the UK stalking fraternity could also get a lot of positive use out of it. If you are really worried, then my advice would be not to disclose where you live - only disclose the county. As a victim of dog theft myself, I know only too well how awful it is to lose a dog. But what's the point in having a tracking dog if it only works once in a blue moon?

Thank you for the feedback – you have raised some interesting points

 

[SussexFallow]

Fair play to you selena for coming clean

 

[JC275]

Welcome Selena, congratulations on your new appointment.

Don't ever turn to a life of crime, you wouldn't stand up to much questioning!

I'm sure that you will get honest opinions on here without the need for a covert approach.

It is good to see a time served journalist on the Sporting Rifle staff as the standards have been pretty low in the past, hopefully your appointment will mark a big step forward for the magazine.

Time will tell how your deer dog register works out, I hope that it will prove helpful but, like some of the other lads, I have reservations about opening it up to all comers; not because of lack of experience on the dogs part but because there is alot more to recovering a wounded deer than just having a dog. Very often, if a deer is wounded and needs a dog to find it, then it will need to be shot again and this is where experience comes in. Very often this all takes place in the dark.

If the deer dog register is to take off and be effective then I think that it is important to get it right from the start. I would also be a little careful when drawing parallels with the use of dogs in the USA, in alot of states it is illegal to use a dog even to recover a wounded deer. I think the UK situation is much nearer to that in other Northern European countries.

In my experience (labs and GSP's), the opportunity to put a young or inexperienced dog on a 'real' track for a deer that is genuinely lost is not a high priority and, if it does not result in success, can actually cause a set back in training.

Whenever I have to find and deal with a lost or wounded deer it just reminds me of how little I know and how difficult situations can be even after twenty years as a stalker.

Having said all of this, I don't wish to sound negative so, as I've said before, best wishes with it all.

Now that we've got your ear i'm sure that we will be happy to help you make Sporting Rifle a success with feedback both good and bad.

JC

 

[Orion]

Who needs a tracking dog when you guys can sniff out a hack?!

And you didn't even give us the chance to do the 'good cop, bad cop' routine.

I have just joined Sporting Rifle as managing editor after 3 years as news editor on Shooting Times. Please excuse the covert approach but I wanted non-biased views. There are lots of very experienced stalkers on this forum so thought that this would be the ideal place to canvas opinion.

Congratulations on your appointment and I hope you will have a positive effect on the standard of journalism currently on offer. Although I'm sure that a declaration of interest from the off goes a lot further in gaining the confidence of those who's views you might be seeking, you got there in the end.

In the USA there is a similar directory. Monthly magazine Georgia Outdoor News lists dog handlers by county and provides the same information on their website. Sporting Rifle is hoping to do the same.

But as JC275 has indicated, there's a whole world of difference in the use of tracking dogs even between the Southern & Northern States of America - let alone Europe! The tradition in Georgia and other Southern States of running dogs free after wounded game - Black & Tan Coonhounds, Walkers, Southern Curs etc. etc. - might be very effective in the heavy cover of the relatively vast private and public hunting areas, but would be totally alien for ethical reasons in the Northern States, the UK and much of Europe, where leashed tracking is sometimes the only legal method. See John Jeanneny's book "Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer", for an overview. BTW the Georgia Outdoor News "Dial-a-Trailing Dog" list is 'compiled with the help of United Bloodtrackers', (an organisation that Jeanneny has more than a passing interest in. ). Are Sporting Rifle going to seek the assistance of any organisation with an interest in tracking dogs before attempting to do the same?

In response to Bordersman: I would hope that stalkers might actually encourage those with inexperienced tracking dogs. As I have already mentioned, I have a young dog and would be thrilled to have the opportunity to use her on a live trail. Is it not important to support newbies?

Of course it's important to support tyros in any branch of the shooting & hunting disciplines but the way it's done can have outcomes that might not at first be anticipated. Can I ask if the proposed Sporting Rifle Tracking Dog Directory is your 'baby'? Having done a bit of stalking myself and trained dogs to follow up, (ESS, Labrador, Teckel (that trained me!), and currently BMH like yourself), I am acutely aware that it is of equal, if not greater importance, to train the handler before both can work as an effective partnership. The very last thing either need as an introduction to a live trail is to be in a high pressure, possibly public, situation having answered a call-out from an unknown stalker. If you are looking to use the service as a means of gaining greater experience for yourself and your dog then, IMHO, you would be better off gaining the confidence of local stalkers or DMGs and furthering the training there before putting yourself under the microscope.

While Sporting Rifle does not accept any responsibility for the ability of the dog handler or dog itself, stalkers using people listed in the directory should discuss their competency beforehand.

Sounds like a bit of a cop-out then. Wouldn't it be better to support those that are seeking to promote a set of standards that can be applied to UK wounded game tracking dogs, rather than an ad-hoc listing that you actually have no control over?

Personally, I would insist on discussing the stalker's expectations before I set out in search of his wounded deer. Conversely, if I called on the services of a dog handler listed in the directory and they turned out to be very inexperienced, I would still feel pleased that I was able to offer them the practice.

Would you also discuss his and your insurance cover and indemnity against each other, FAC conditions & authority and legal rights to enter property and kill wounded animals and what would happen in a public place if the dog riots and follows on? etc. etc. It's a potential minefield.

In response to silkamalc: All directories could potentially be abused. But I would hope that the UK stalking fraternity could also get a lot of positive use out of it. If you are really worried, then my advice would be not to disclose where you live - only disclose the county. As a victim of dog theft myself, I know only too well how awful it is to lose a dog. But what's the point in having a tracking dog if it only works once in a blue moon?

I'll echo sikamalc & JC275s concerns and emphasise the requirement for the handler to be both experienced and authorised to administer the coup de grace to the wounded animal with his own firearm - I wouldn't personally want an inexperienced and excited stalker to be pointing a firearm anywhere near where a dog of mine was baying a deer - especially at night!

Thank you for the feedback – you have raised some interesting points

Here's another couple. Even the breed society for your own dog are seeking to establish standards that are compatible with those in Europe;

"One of the goals of the BMH Soc. of GB from the very beginning was to establish tracking tests as in Europe, we have worked from the tracking test rules from the continent as a basis; we have had to have the rules translated and proofed to make them workable here in the U.K."

Whilst we may never be fully accepted by the JGHV, (maybe not a bad thing as the Danish model possibly looks to be the one to aim for?), there appear to be enough people in the UK who wish to see a recognised wounded game tracking dog society established, with set standards that are comparable to those used in Europe, and which will no doubt help when the day comes and there is something in place rather than having if dropped on us by the authorities.

As you are no doubt in favour of achieving standards, (DSC1 etc), don't you feel that the same might be applicable to tracking dogs, (and handlers!), via Schweiss-UK - if it gets going - or some other organised club, rather than promoting an unaccountable and uncontrolled listing in a magazine? Having said that, I'd possibly support it if it had a bit more vetting and accountability.

 

[sikamalc]

Well Selena, welcome to the real stalking site . My dog gets plenty of work throughout the season, and I am sure if you need any help with your BMH pup you will find plenty of good advice, experience and help on the SD Site.

I still feel that its a long shot to ask folk to be on a list and use their dogs to track other stalkers wounded deer. Most stalkers who own a good deer dog have enough friends and land to keep them busy with their dogs. Looked at the article in the SR, fist one I have ever purchased, looks good.

ATB

Sikamalc

 

[SussexFallow]

Perhaps rather than an individual listing a better idea may be to have a county co ordinator who would have all the numbers for the dog handlers and could then pass on any calls. Maybe from there regional training days could be arranged for all to meet and discuss and of course train dogs.
Being a deer warden for east sussex I get called out regularly and take my dog although I agree with sikamalc that getting a call from joe public could lead to unsavoury characters perhaps abusing the system.
I still feel that the way forward in training a deer dog is to gain the trust of local stalkers as Orion pointed out. This however takes time and thats why I feel sites like this are crucial and the social meets a great way of speeding up the process..

ATB Steve

 

[Orion]

Perhaps rather than an individual listing a better idea may be to have a county co ordinator who would have all the numbers for the dog handlers and could then pass on any calls. Maybe from there regional training days could be arranged for all to meet and discuss and of course train dogs.

IMHO that's 100% why something independent like this should be getting off the ground:

http://schweiss-uk.org/default.aspx

 

[rarms]

Is this the magazine run by Peter Carr?

 

[smithp18]

Hi Selena,
First Congrats on your new appointment and all the best, I’m sure you will bring fresh and a different approach good luck,
Like you I am with new Pup from the same litter and really looking forward to the new challenge ahead,
This site as plenty of experience and advice and with people like Mark, Alison, Malc and the list goes on, guiding us I’m sure we will hit the standard.
This tracking service / register in principle seems a good thing but there appears to be a number of organisations looking to start this off and strangely roughly at the same time.
I have been watching with interest this thread and a number of points you and others have raised are valid but I not sure how these will be addressed to satisfy all.
I will look forward with interest to see how this develops.

Smithy

 

[Sam]

Is this the magazine run by Peter Carr?

Yup. Mister Ive killed it all and know it all. Tosser.


Sam

 

[Orion]

Yup. Mister Ive killed it all and know it all. Tosser.