New to stalking what scope

[4616Oxon]

I have a variation in for a 6.5 Creedmoor. Am starting to look at what scopes to get, will use it for stalking mostly I should think although not in a hurry to buy.

A lot of discussion about getting one of the big three brands if possible. Looking at various stats light transmission etc, the new Hawke frontier series seem to be good, have used on rimfire and have been good. Also I know the more magnification it can affect the light transmission? Some talk of fixed magnification? Was looking at a 50mm objective lens. Any advice don’t really want to spend much more than £1000 although could make do with my current one and swap on and off then save up. Finally most deer focused scopes don’t have large aim off points and have a simple reticule, any reasons for this? Apologies many questions!

 

[suburban bushwacker]

ZCO, swaro, Khales, S&B
these will take you from £4k to £450
if you’re not in a hurry keep saving and keep looking, there are bargains but only for the patient

 

[andyk]

There’s someone selling a Zenith in the classifieds for good money.

 

[Steff]

I have a variation in for a 6.5 Creedmoor. Am starting to look at what scopes to get, will use it for stalking mostly I should think although not in a hurry to buy.

A lot of discussion about getting one of the big three brands if possible. Looking at various stats light transmission etc, the new Hawke frontier series seem to be good, have used on rimfire and have been good. Also I know the more magnification it can affect the light transmission? Some talk of fixed magnification? Was looking at a 50mm objective lens. Any advice don’t really want to spend much more than £1000 although could make do with my current one and swap on and off then save up. Finally most deer focused scopes don’t have large aim off points and have a simple reticule, any reasons for this? Apologies many questions!

I think we have to start at the beginning here.

Mathematically light transmission is measured in form of the exit pupil which is calculated as objective diameter / magnification. So an 8x56 has an exit pupil of 56/8=7. 7mm is the maximum opening of the human pupil. As you become older this becomes smaller. I am 54 and gurss that my pupil only opens up to max. 5.5mm. So I cannot make use of a a larger exit pupil of any optic. But still it can make sense simply as a comfort factor as I don‘t have to position my eye 100% square and still have a full picture.

The above should make it clear to you that you cannot expect good light gathering from even a 56mm scope at ie.g. 20x magnification.

So much for the theoretical part, now comes quality. Glass coating are absolutely crucial. They minimize the amount of light which is reflected back by the lenses and is therefore not available for transmission to your eye. Considering that modern optics contain about 7 lenses this is more important than ever. A low quality scope will always have a crap light transmission due to the glass quality and coating even if the mathematical factors are optimal. Thus forget Hake for this purpose. Nice during daylight, but useless when it gets darker.

 

[Bowland blades]

I have a variation in for a 6.5 Creedmoor. Am starting to look at what scopes to get, will use it for stalking mostly I should think although not in a hurry to buy.

A lot of discussion about getting one of the big three brands if possible. Looking at various stats light transmission etc, the new Hawke frontier series seem to be good, have used on rimfire and have been good. Also I know the more magnification it can affect the light transmission? Some talk of fixed magnification? Was looking at a 50mm objective lens. Any advice don’t really want to spend much more than £1000 although could make do with my current one and swap on and off then save up. Finally most deer focused scopes don’t have large aim off points and have a simple reticule, any reasons for this? Apologies many questions!

most deer rifles can be zeroed in in a 200 yards and stay within the kill zone or a bit of holding on the top of it regards trajectory . until you get into real long shots forget dialing. Stalking scopes need to be tough and able to hold zero , bumping around in an argo etc you need something far more robust 6x42, 7x50, 8x56 are very common and a darn good purchase especially second hand as people " up-grade" into more expensive variable stuff with target turrets, yet they will shoot 90%+ of thier deer on 6x 7x 8x . Because of this upgrade most big dealers have such scopes in stock second hand . Upgrade if you wish but do it later when you will realize more what you need

6.5 creedmore is just fine , covers all Uk deer in all environments but thanks to the deer act most do. Good availiblity of ammo and a decent foxing rifle with the like of the 100 grain class thin jacketed varmint spec rounds . Basic Tikka will do you fine and easy to get parts into the future had two in the past the tikka mounts are also top notch

 

[Steff]

The above may a bit theoretical and you want advice not a lecture.
For regular stalking 8x to 12x max. magnification is good enough. Combined with a 42 or 50 mm objective in scopes from the top ranges of Leica, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Steiner, Kahles and some others you are all set.
I you want to shoot targets at 300m + you will want a target scope with a higher max. magnification. You certainly won‘t go wrong by choosing one of the premier brands also for this application but you can scale down with regard to the quality ad target shooting usually takes place during bright day light. E.g. a Zeiss Conquest will be good enough, no need for a HT model, which is not available in a target spec with high mag anyway. Also a Hawke will become an option here and many more. But mechanical quality is still a major issue. There‘s no free lunch.

 

[4616Oxon]

I think we have to start at the beginning here.

Mathematically light transmission is measured in form of the exit pupil which is calculated as objective diameter / magnification. So an 8x56 has an exit pupil of 56/8=7. 7mm is the maximum opening of the human pupil. As you become older this becomes smaller. I am 54 and gurss that my pupil only opens up to max. 5.5mm. So I cannot make use of a a larger exit pupil of any optic. But still it can make sense simply as a comfort factor as I don‘t have to position my eye 100% square and still have a full picture.

The above should make it clear to you that you cannot expect good light gathering from even a 56mm scope at ie.g. 20x magnification.

So much for the theoretical part, now comes quality. Glass coating are absolutely crucial. They minimize the amount of light which is reflected back by the lenses and is therefore not available for transmission to your eye. Considering that modern optics contain about 7 lenses this is more important than ever. A low quality scope will always have a crap light transmission due to the glass quality and coating even if the mathematical factors are optimal. Thus forget Hake for this purpose. Nice during daylight, but useless when it gets darker.

Many thanks! Some good knowledge here will look at stats with better perspective.

 

[4616Oxon]

There’s someone selling a Zenith in the classifieds for good money.

Thank you will have a look.

 

[Loler UK]

6x42 illuminated s&b brand new or get a second hand 3-12x50/56.

 

[4616Oxon]

most deer rifles can be zeroed in in a 200 yards and stay within the kill zone or a bit of holding on the top of it regards trajectory . until you get into real long shots forget dialing. Stalking scopes need to be tough and able to hold zero , bumping around in an argo etc you need something far more robust 6x42, 7x50, 8x56 are very common and a darn good purchase especially second hand as people " up-grade" into more expensive variable stuff with target turrets, yet they will shoot 90%+ of thier deer on 6x 7x 8x . Because of this upgrade most big dealers have such scopes in stock second hand . Upgrade if you wish but do it later when you will realize more what you need

6.5 creedmore is just fine , covers all Uk deer in all environments but thanks to the deer act most do. Good availiblity of ammo and a decent foxing rifle with the like of the 100 grain class thin jacketed varmint spec rounds . Basic Tikka will do you fine and easy to get parts into the future had two in the past the tikka mounts are also top notch

Many thanks for this and good info regarding second hand scopes. I should think the classifieds here and gun trader are good places to start? Stupid question why zero at 200 and not 100? Also have 22-250 that I may get a Hawke frontier for but that can wait!

 

[VSS]

Aim off points in a stalking scope are more of a hinderance than a help. Quick target acquisition is more important, so the less clutter in your vision the better. Keep it simple. Use the "point blank range" method of zeroing, so you can simply point and press out to, say, 250 yards without holding over. Anything over that, simply get closer. That's why it's called stalking.
There's been some really reasonably priced Leupold scopes on here recently. You won't go far wrong with one of those.

 

[4616Oxon]

The above may a bit theoretical and you want advice not a lecture.
For regular stalking 8x to 12x max. magnification is good enough. Combined with a 42 or 50 mm objective in scopes from the top ranges of Leica, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Steiner, Kahles and some others you are all set.
I you want to shoot targets at 300m + you will want a target scope with a higher max. magnification. You certainly won‘t go wrong by choosing one of the premier brands also for this application but you can scale down with regard to the quality ad target shooting usually takes place during bright day light. E.g. a Zeiss Conquest will be good enough, no need for a HT model, which is not available in a target spec with high mag anyway. Also a Hawke will become an option here and many more. But mechanical quality is still a major issue. There‘s no free lunch.

Many thanks for this and good info regarding second hand scopes. I should think the classifieds here and gun trader are good places to start? Stupid question why zero at 200 and not 100? Also have 22-250 that I may get a Hawke frontier for but that can wait!

The above may a bit theoretical and you want advice not a lecture.
For regular stalking 8x to 12x max. magnification is good enough. Combined with a 42 or 50 mm objective in scopes from the top ranges of Leica, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski, Steiner, Kahles and some others you are all set.
I you want to shoot targets at 300m + you will want a target scope with a higher max. magnification. You certainly won‘t go wrong by choosing one of the premier brands also for this application but you can scale down with regard to the quality ad target shooting usually takes place during bright day light. E.g. a Zeiss Conquest will be good enough, no need for a HT model, which is not available in a target spec with high mag anyway. Also a Hawke will become an option here and many more. But mechanical quality is still a major issue. There‘s no free lunch.

All good info thank you

 

[4616Oxon]

Aim off points in a stalking scope are more of a hinderance than a help. Quick target acquisition is more important, so the less clutter in your vision the better. Keep it simple. Use the "point blank range" method of zeroing, so you can simply point and press out to, say, 250 yards without holding over. Anything over that, simply get closer. That's why it's called stalking.
There's been some really reasonably priced Leupold scopes on here recently. You won't go far wrong with one of those.

Thank yes that’s clear, I have strelok pro so can dry test aim points and see what you mean

 

[caorach]

Unless you have infinite funds then spend as little as possible on gear and the rest on actually going stalking. In the end it is going stalking that gives you the best opportunity of actually shooting a deer. If you like the scope you have then just use it. I've always just used an 8X56 S&B that I got 2nd hand many years ago and that is probably still worth what I paid for it, some people prefer a 6X42. If you want a simple stalking scope that will do you a lifetime these fixed scopes can't be beaten as you can get top notch glass 2nd hand for very little cash and if you ever want to sell you'll get your money back. You can't beat that as an offer. Most of the rest of the "features" that scope marketing men try to sell you won't get used once you have the scope sitting on your rifle, you are probably going to be shooting something the size of a dinner plate at 50 - 150 yards and while that isn't always easy to do it isn't complicated and doesn't require features or anything of that nature.

Spend your cash on your life and don't hand it to some marketing man who is selling you something you'll never need.

 

[4616Oxon]

Unless you have infinite funds then spend as little as possible on gear and the rest on actually going stalking. In the end it is going stalking that gives you the best opportunity of actually shooting a deer. If you like the scope you have then just use it. I've always just used an 8X56 S&B that I got 2nd hand many years ago and that is probably still worth what I paid for it, some people prefer a 6X42. If you want a simple stalking scope that will do you a lifetime these fixed scopes can't be beaten as you can get top notch glass 2nd hand for very little cash and if you ever want to sell you'll get your money back. You can't beat that as an offer. Most of the rest of the "features" that scope marketing men try to sell you won't get used once you have the scope sitting on your rifle, you are probably going to be shooting something the size of a dinner plate at 50 - 150 yards and while that isn't always easy to do it isn't complicated and doesn't require features or anything of that nature.

Spend your cash on your life and don't hand it to some marketing man who is selling you something you'll never need.

All good points, as paid guided stalking will add up.

 

[4616Oxon]

All good points, as paid guided stalking will add up.

When I will be allowed out to do it. A job and 2 small children will prevent me getting out too much!

 

[Andy S]

Hawk if you want under £1000 I've a frontier which from memory cost about £800 its excellent for the money variable mag FFP mil ret illuminated ret great "working scope" I've also 2nd hand victory V8 60mm it buys me another 15 minutes each end of the day and has stunning clarity which is handy sexying stuff as its getting dark . new it would have cost 4 time that - difficult to justify unless your shooting 5 days a week

 

[Pedro]

I suppose really, you should use the Hawke you've got, which will do a job and feed the piggy bank for a while until you can get the scope you really want, having read all the above! I'm a fan of buying once and buying good. Accidents apart, a good quality scope will last a lifetime, so don't jump in without a good deal of thought and in the meantime, whilst the funds creep upwards (the Chancellor allowing) just continue to acquire knowledge about them, so you make an informed purchase. Spend a bit of time on here searching and reading old threads on the "which scope" subject, of which there are quite a few. And maybe become one of those annoying people that mooch around your local gun shop (only temporarily) looking at scopes and engaging in conversations, again to broaden your knowledge. After all, a potential purchase of £1500 (or more or less) needs to be made wisely.

 

[4616Oxon]

I suppose really, you should use the Hawke you've got, which will do a job and feed the piggy bank for a while until you can get the scope you really want, having read all the above! I'm a fan of buying once and buying good. Accidents apart, a good quality scope will last a lifetime, so don't jump in without a good deal of thought and in the meantime, whilst the funds creep upwards (the Chancellor allowing) just continue to acquire knowledge about them, so you make an informed purchase. Spend a bit of time on here searching and reading old threads on the "which scope" subject, of which there are quite a few. And maybe become one of those annoying people that mooch around your local gun shop (only temporarily) looking at scopes and engaging in conversations, again to broaden your knowledge. After all, a potential purchase of £1500 (or more or less) needs to be made wisely.

Many thanks and good points. Getting to grips with the forum search so will have a look. I can build things up slowly and always use a Hawke on the 22-250 when I get a more appropriate stalking scopes.

 

[4616Oxon]

Hawk if you want under £1000 I've a frontier which from memory cost about £800 its excellent for the money variable mag FFP mil ret illuminated ret great "working scope" I've also 2nd hand victory V8 60mm it buys me another 15 minutes each end of the day and has stunning clarity which is handy sexying stuff as its getting dark . new it would have cost 4 time that - difficult to justify unless your shooting 5 days a week

Many thanks so great to have an opinion from someone who has used both. Do you think the entry level Zeiss, kahles S & B will still be a better option than top level Hawke?