New to stalking what scope

[HonestJohn]

I'd say, zero at MPBR given the smallest vital region size of your chosen main game, use a simple scope that gives you a good cheek weld and fits the application, a strong reliable scope with good light gathering and good lenses. learn to use it and stick with it!

I also believe firmly that learning wind drift at ranges between 150 and 250 yards is important, by practising in field conditions on windy days, so you know what your bullet will do at a 10mph breeze and 20mph breeze. A lot of people do not realise how far a bullet can drift in a 90 degree cross wind at 200yds. Knowing the drift will not necessarily mean you will hold off to compensate, it will importantly mean you know when to walk away from the shot because it's a bigger drift than you're comfortable with

 

[4616Oxon]

Kahles make very good scopes. But FFP only on their target models. The hunting scopes are all SFP.
Additional aim points are more of a hinderance for stalking than a help. You need to be quick and quick means intuitive action. If your rifle is sighted in an inch or an inch and a half high at 100m you don‘t need to correct anything out to 200m. Most people haven‘t shot that far once in their life and fabulate about ASV‘s BDC‘s and what not. Go out and shoot targets at 100, 200 and 300m. You will see where your impacts are and also their spread. Depending on caliblre you will be about 25 to 40 cm low at 300m. Nobody needs a ballistic reticle or dialing to correct for this on a deer. If one cannot correct for 30 cm on a deer this person shouldn‘t be shooting at live quarry at all.

Ok thanks good info. I was just thinking that a “target” style scope with a dialect simple reticle would do the job in stalking but also have the utility for other uses if the need arose. Agreed on simplicity and quick shooting - I have had experience but not with deer! In my view small and simple aim points for corrections would only aid simplicity and speed but that is just me.

 

[HonestJohn]

Ok thanks good info. I was just thinking that a “target” style scope with a dialect simple reticle would do the job in stalking but also have the utility for other uses if the need arose. Agreed on simplicity and quick shooting - I have had experience but not with deer! In my view small and simple aim points for corrections would only aid simplicity and speed but that is just me.

problem with dialling and aimpoints is 'time'. deer don't tend to stand still in the same place for very long, when a good broadside shot presents itself, you'll very rarely have time to think about anything else than just placing the crosshairs in the right place. If a deer shows itself and starts moving, and you have to think about the exact distance, which aimpoint/mildot/hashmark/other to use, dial, this or that, it will likely be gone or have changed position. Having 'less' to think about also means you can pay more attention to important matters such as ensuring backstop is reliable, amongst other things that storm through your mind before you decide to commit to shot.

 

[4616Oxon]

I'd say, zero at MPBR given the smallest vital region size of your chosen main game, use a simple scope that gives you a good cheek weld and fits the application, a strong reliable scope with good light gathering and good lenses. learn to use it and stick with it!

I also believe firmly that learning wind drift at ranges between 150 and 250 yards is important, by practising in field conditions on windy days, so you know what your bullet will do at a 10mph breeze and 20mph breeze. A lot of people do not realise how far a bullet can drift in a 90 degree cross wind at 200yds. Knowing the drift will not necessarily mean you will hold off to compensate, it will importantly mean you know when to walk away from the shot because it's a bigger drift than you're comfortable with

Good point, yes 10mph can have a big effect as can 5mph

 

[Steff]

Ok thanks good info. I was just thinking that a “target” style scope with a dialect simple reticle would do the job in stalking but also have the utility for other uses if the need arose. Agreed on simplicity and quick shooting - I have had experience but not with deer! In my view small and simple aim points for corrections would only aid simplicity and speed but that is just me.

Additional aim points would indeed only help you on a FFP reticle. Theoretically they would also work on a SFP scope but this would involve math. Not ideal in a stalking situation.

 

[Steff]

I have tried scopes with additional hold off points as I thought they were a good idea, just like you now.
In fact they distract you from the task at hand. Say you want to go 15cm high at 300m and you have hash marks in 1 MOA increments on your reticle. Which mark will you hold where? See what I mean?
Whereas 15cm in minutes-of-deer is easy because you have it right in front if you.

 

[4616Oxon]

I have tried scopes with additional hold off points as I thought they were a good idea, just like you now.
In fact they distract you from the task at hand. Say you want to go 15cm high at 300m and you have hash marks in 1 MOA increments on your reticle. Which mark will you hold where? See what I mean?
Whereas 15cm in minutes-of-deer is easy because you have it right in front if you.

i do see what you mean - i guess FFP will help, but even if not. You can just used the fixed aim point and choose a simple reticule. I was only looking at FFP as that is what i am used to - although makes the choice more limited and the cost normally more.

 

[nun_hunter]

problem with dialling and aimpoints is 'time'. deer don't tend to stand still in the same place for very long, when a good broadside shot presents itself, you'll very rarely have time to think about anything else than just placing the crosshairs in the right place. If a deer shows itself and starts moving, and you have to think about the exact distance, which aimpoint/mildot/hashmark/other to use, dial, this or that, it will likely be gone or have changed position. Having 'less' to think about also means you can pay more attention to important matters such as ensuring backstop is reliable, amongst other things that storm through your mind before you decide to commit to shot.

That depends on the sort of stalking you do and where you stalk. In the woodland I stalk even seeing a deer beyond 60m is unlike due to how thick it is and the terrain so it's point and shoot and MRADs or a BDC reticle do t distract at all. If I'm in a highseat then I know where the deer will appear and as such I know the distance so using the marks on a BDC reticle are memorised so it's also point and shoot, just a lot more accurately.

OP says he has military experience so shooting using the reticle isn't something new and as long as it's practiced then having a BDC or aim points on a reticle aren't confusing especially if you can remain calm and have the muscle memory to get the rifle up and shouldered quickly.

 

[4616Oxon]

That depends on the sort of stalking you do and where you stalk. In the woodland I stalk even seeing a deer beyond 60m is unlike due to how thick it is and the terrain so it's point and shoot and MRADs or a BDC reticle do t distract at all. If I'm in a highseat then I know where the deer will appear and as such I know the distance so using the marks on a BDC reticle are memorised so it's also point and shoot, just a lot more accurately.

OP says he has military experience so shooting using the reticle isn't something new and as long as it's practiced then having a BDC or aim points on a reticle aren't confusing especially if you can remain calm and have the muscle memory to get the rifle up and shouldered quickly.

thank you, I think I will go on a few stalks and will be using the estate rifle for a while which has a simple reticule and no magnification from memory, while variation comes through and I build up funds. I am minded to go FFP and a tactical type scope but only for versatility for any shooting other than stalking.

 

[nun_hunter]

thank you, I think I will go on a few stalks and will be using the estate rifle for a while which has a simple reticule and no magnification from memory, while variation comes through and I build up funds. I am minded to go FFP and a tactical type scope but only for versatility for any shooting other than stalking.

If it's what you are used to and happy that you will use the features then stick with what you know and what you're likely to make the most of.

 

[VSS]

thank you, I think I will go on a few stalks and will be using the estate rifle for a while which has a simple reticule and no magnification from memory, while variation comes through and I build up funds. I am minded to go FFP and a tactical type scope but only for versatility for any shooting other than stalking.

By the sounds of things you have perfect excuse (ahem, excuse me, I mean "good reason") for having two rifles
One of them set up with a simple stalking scope for deer, and one of them set up with your "tactical" scope for other shooting disciplines. Provided that they're also both signed off for AOLQ then you're good to go with whichever suits your fancy at the time. Happy days!

 

[HonestJohn]

thank you, I think I will go on a few stalks and will be using the estate rifle for a while which has a simple reticule and no magnification from memory, while variation comes through and I build up funds. I am minded to go FFP and a tactical type scope but only for versatility for any shooting other than stalking.

Just bear in mind that a good reliable tactical type scope will often run you between £1.5k and £3k. Please don’t buy ‘value’ tactical scopes, it will likely result in an injured deer down the line

 

[caorach]

View on Kahles? Is it a good make and have a good few FFP options which I prefer from army days and other scopes. I agree not to be messing around with dialling but a couple of aim point would be useful? I would think. The option to have variable focus would make it suitable for other environments as well? This is my thinking feel free to shoot me down- no pun intended!

Don't make your life more complicated than it needs to be - I've shot deer from 250+ yards down to "the other side of the wall" and never needed to fiddle with the scope or focus or anything else for that matter.

I'm zeroed at 200 yards which means that from 40 - 170ish yards I'm 2 inches high. If the deer looks awfully big then I aim dead on, if it looks sort of normal sized then putting the crosshair on the end of its nose will hit it between the eyes or with a chest shot just shoot it, if the deer starts looking small then I walk closer. You don't need extra machines to do any of this, spend your cash on going stalking.

 

[4616Oxon]

Don't make your life more complicated than it needs to be - I've shot deer from 250+ yards down to "the other side of the wall" and never needed to fiddle with the scope or focus or anything else for that matter.

I'm zeroed at 200 yards which means that from 40 - 170ish yards I'm 2 inches high. If the deer looks awfully big then I aim dead on, if it looks sort of normal sized then putting the crosshair on the end of its nose will hit it between the eyes or with a chest shot just shoot it, if the deer starts looking small then I walk closer. You don't need extra machines to do any of this, spend your cash on going stalking.

Just to clarify I wasn’t planning to dial or play around with the scope. But I know what you mean

 

[4616Oxon]

Just bear in mind that a good reliable tactical type scope will often run you between £1.5k and £3k. Please don’t buy ‘value’ tactical scopes, it will likely result in an injured deer down the line

No I was going to go Kahles I think and will just wait so will be over £2k

 

[4616Oxon]

By the sounds of things you have perfect excuse (ahem, excuse me, I mean "good reason") for having two rifles
One of them set up with a simple stalking scope for deer, and one of them set up with your "tactical" scope for other shooting disciplines. Provided that they're also both signed off for AOLQ then you're good to go with whichever suits your fancy at the time. Happy days!

And if both look the same I may even get away with it!

 

[HonestJohn]

at the end of the day it's YOUR journey, and it's a fun journey to learn about rifles, calibres, ammo, reloading, scopes, etc. don't necessarily feel you HAVE TO do what people including me are suggesting, walk your own path, but take into consideration what posters on this thread have said of course.

no matter what, enjoy the journey, don't get bogged down on equipment, it's the stalking and day out that's the real prize!

 

[VSS]

And if both look the same I may even get away with it!

Definitely there are advantages to having them both the same, beyond the obvious one

 

[willie_gunn]

It may have been answered already, but what type of stalking are you mostly doing?

Roe and muntjac in woodlands down in Oxon, open hill stalking in Scotland, or something else?

It can make a difference!

 

[Koenig]

View on Kahles? Is it a good make and have a good few FFP options which I prefer from army days and other scopes. I agree not to be messing around with dialling but a couple of aim point would be useful? I would think. The option to have variable focus would make it suitable for other environments as well? This is my thinking feel free to shoot me down- no pun intended!

Khales are very good scopes. I personally would go with a Swarovski or an S&B (may be a Zeiss) but that’s just me. If you shot at last/first light when most deer are active you won’t see fine aiming off points against the gloom. What you want is a thick/thin reticle such as an A4 or A7. Variable scopes are usually left on x8 or thereabouts because that’s the best magnification unless you are doing real close in shooting like Euro style driven in which case you probably want a red dot (just watch Wild Boar Fever on YouTube to see what I mean) Illuminated reticles can be useful, but not essential.