No Tox Frustrstion.

[Bavarianbrit]

100% make sure that barrel is spotless before shooting copper!

Worked for me when many years ago my 6.5 was being a slag and wouldn’t group.

Nielsen Sonic 110gr are made of brass which is harder than copper, perhaps actual copper would suit the rifle more well woth testing a few. IMO. Copper scores 35 on the Brinell hardness scale, while brass scores between 55 and 73.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Nielsen Sonic 110gr are made of brass which is harder than copper, perhaps actual copper would suit the rifle more well woth testing a few. IMO. Copper scores 35 on the Brinell hardness scale, while brass scores between 55 and 73.

That’s far too complicated information that I need to know about, but I thank you very kindly for your information.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

if you need to deep clean the barrel to get a monolthic of any metal/alloy to work then you have bigger issues.
Its a myth that this is required.
I alternate between copper/brass and standard cup and core bullets in all my rifles without issue.

the logic is flawed as the only part of a cup and core, lead bullet that touches the rifling is the jacket.....which is copper, or a copper zinc alloy...a high copper alloy brass

your group of three is fine
your issue is a first round one.
That isn't a load issue, sound like a mechanical interference or physical issue.
any rifle that shoots the first round anywhere else than the core group usually has a physical issue

has it ever done that with other ammo?
does it make any difference if you leave the rifle and shoot only cold bore shots?

 

[VSS]

I'm having a hard time getting a non toxic load worked up for my .308 Sauer 202.
The pic shows what is simultaniously, the best, and worse group so far.
Typically, it puys the first shot high, and the next 3 in a group several inches lower.
Non toxic is costing me a f@<&ing fortune in bullets and powder so far. I can always use the powder, but what do you do with nearly £200 worth of bullets that don't suit your rifle?
Tempted just to stick with lead.
My .223 shoots no tox nicely, and my .243 gives ok results, but the .308 is frustrating, and the .303 scatters them all over the target.

You consider this to be a "non toxic" issue, yet in post #10 you say that the rifle does exactly the same thing with conventional ammo

The fact that the problem is more pronounced with the non-toxic may be a factor of weight, bullet design, velocity etc, but that doesn't alter the fact that the problem was already there before you changed ammo.

May be a shooting technique issue? Overthinking the first shot?

 

[Harry mac]

The thought had occurred to me that it could be down to my bench technique, soafter the first group I started using a rear bag as well as the front rest and tried to minimise my contact with the rifle.
It doesn't happen with my other rifles.

 

[paul o']

Fox 130 9 rounds N160 270
Yew tree 12 rounds R16 6.5 creed
I'v had it off light reading the above.

 

[hoodwink]

Interestingly, I still have the same issue with the first round being high but not always (Barnes TTSX 130gr .308). Initially I thought it was just cold barrel but given I quite often only fire one round whilst out stalking, they are not always high! Somewhat at a loss as the rest are grouping well - the attached was on a quite windy, blustery day.

View attachment 304017

I had the same with factory loaded, very dirty, chocked up the moderator.

 

[zambezi]

what do you do with nearly £200 worth of bullets that don't suit your rifle?

There should probably be an SD swap page for this near universal reloader experience. Certainly I have 36gr Barnes Varmints in .224 and Virtus Osprey 101gr in .308 for which I cannot find a useful load...would consider any reasonable swap

 

[sauer]

Sauer 202 …..
Is it the alloy lightweight action ?

Check recoil hasn’t stripped on or more of the threads in top of action that’s holding your mounts

Seen one same would throw two close group one way off sides of A4
The threads stripped on one hole causing minute movement

Paul

 

[reiver]

Vihtavuori now has load data on its app for copper bullets inc fox if that helps ?

 

[Harry mac]

Sauer 202 …..
Is it the alloy lightweight action ?

Check recoil hasn’t stripped on or more of the threads in top of action that’s holding your mounts

Seen one same would throw two close group one way off sides of A4
The threads stripped on one hole causing minute movement

Paul

Nope. Steel action. I've had the rifle for 27 years, and this non toxic malarkey is the first time I've ever had such a hard time finding a load it will shoot.

 

[sauer]

Reloading , not factory ?
How much of a jump /OAL ?
Lot of this copper stuff seems to like a big jump 50 /60 thou

Paul

 

[Davee]

In my 202 everything likes a good jump! Fox 123 has the smallest jump of 74thou, everything else is 107 to 113 thou.