So far I've only tried copper in my Tikka T3X .270. I bought this rifle new 18 months ago and knew that some sort of lead ban would be coming sooner or later so made the decision to start off with copper and get some experience before it became compulsory. I tried Hornady CX in 130gr and Sako Powerhead Blades in 120gr. Both proved to be accurate and repeatable but I decided on the Sako Powerhead Blades. Not had any issues when shooting deer at up to 270m or seen any big differences with entry / exit wounds, dead is dead. Probably put 4 boxes of factory ammo through it in that time and a number of reloads when working on a load that I'm happy to use. Down to my last 8 rounds of factory ammo and once I have used this I will be dong all my stalking with reloads. Whether buying factory rounds or reloading it is more expensive than lead but for the numbers I'm shooting cost per round isn't a big decision maker, If I was shooting regular shooting on a range then the extra cost would definitely start to hurt. it will be interesting to see how my .243 copes but it is a popular calibre so something that works is bound to be developed. I was only quite young when the lead ban came in for fishing and it didn't change much if anything for me, hoping it is the same with shooting.
The solid copper forum.
- Thread starter Nimrod1960
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
If you are regularly shooting at a range, you really need a cartridge that is cheap to run. 223, 6.5 CM and 308. Beauty of these caibres is that the likes of Fox do much cheaper all copper training bullets that mimic the hunting bullets.
The only factory copper ammo I have used in my 6.5PRC was the Hornady Outfitter with the 130grain CX bullet
MV was well below box, 2778fps v's 2975fps (Garmin chrono), but it worked well enough
Good exit wounds and even small deer such as Muntjac & Chinese Water Deer seemed to reliably intiate expansion
I've used up most of my supply now and I'm back to lead ammo for a while, luckily I still have access to a few bits of ground where I don't need to use exclusively lead-free (yet)
I'll work up a copper bullet load eventually, I chose the Barnes LRX as I liked the look of it and it seems to be get favourable reviews
Good thread
MV was well below box, 2778fps v's 2975fps (Garmin chrono), but it worked well enough
Good exit wounds and even small deer such as Muntjac & Chinese Water Deer seemed to reliably intiate expansion
I've used up most of my supply now and I'm back to lead ammo for a while, luckily I still have access to a few bits of ground where I don't need to use exclusively lead-free (yet)
I'll work up a copper bullet load eventually, I chose the Barnes LRX as I liked the look of it and it seems to be get favourable reviews
Good thread
Im moving to copper for the 6.5 Creed and tried Hornady CX and Sako blade last week to see what gives the best groups. Sako Blade wins so I ll be starting to run that in the next week or two so fingers crossed. I dont shoot enough or have the patience for homeloading and am not target shooting so 1"MOA will do me 
No its the 100gr that fails in Scotland
only due to the farcical tripartrite system
about 40% of the 100gr factory ammo we tired failed to meet the 1750ftlb minimum with standard 20" barrelled factory tikka
the 80gr stuff will zip along with waay more than the 1700/1750ftlb requirement
I’m planning on using the LRX in my 300 PRC, when I get around to it. Want to sort the 30-30 for deer first though. Waiting for the 140 gr monocles to land with reloading solutions to have a play, failing that it’ll be the flat nose hornady 125 gr CX.
I think a lot of factory 80 gr doesn’t reach the reported velocities and coupled with 16-20” barrels a lot of people are under the limit for England or Scotland.
Home loaded ammunition is a different matter though.
I can do 100 gr Scotland legal with the 25-45, 100 gr pro hunter, not sure it would do it with copper though as the bullet would eat up too much of the powder space.
You will easily see 3150 from a 20” barrel
Who the **** is running a 16” .243 and worrying about MV?
Not common or logical
Our factory Fox 80gr is pushing 3250-3300 from a 20” barrel
There is no “Scotland 200gr” anymore
Run what you want
Copper bullets can be inhumane
The truth about copper bullets versus lead core bullet designs
www.ballisticstudies.com
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Bollocks Tim , if it was factory it was going too fast if it was home loaded it was still going too fast!
Tim my old cocker I’ve had 1000’s of dead deer shot with a Barnes bullet, it’s not the bullet that’s crap it’s the soles that it’s going that’s the problem
Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
The reality is that bullet and calibre combination is a poor choice for shooting at those ranges.
Barnes TTSX operate in a window of 3300-2400 FPS with good terminal performance, 2400-2200 FPS they will kill but it will be noticeably slower with narrowing wound tracts, under 2200 FPS they really aren't expanding much at all.
The ranges given using a ballistic calc (AB Custom Curve) and his MV give the following impact velocities:
Shot 1 - 228M (250 Yards) - 2154 FPS
Shot 2 - 251M (275 Yards) - 2075 FPS
Shot 3 - 274M (300 Yards) - 1997 FPS
Ultimately at every shot he is outside the velocity window where these bullets perform.
The other factor is he is shooting a very small calibre, given the high weight retention designs like Barnes TTSX expand to 1.5-2X diameter when in the operating window, a .223 cal bullet will only reach a diameter of .3345-.446, only marginally bigger than a .308 pencilling if you're closer to the 1.5X side, which you would probably get towards the lower end of the operating window when you haven't hit bone.
This is one reason I recommend people use a larger calibre than the absolute minimum.
Ultimately in my opinion either use a 6.5 or larger if you want to use high weight retention designs, as you then have the BC/Velocity/Frontal area to make them work well, or if you want to use these very small calibres (6.5 or under) then choose a fragmenting design like the Yew Tree TLR which will maximise the terminal damage you see from a small bullet.
Equally if you are going to be shooting at distance or where the terminal velocity is starting low, (ie your terminal velocity is going to be low) then choose a fragmenting design which is optimised for retaining velocity and has a lower expansion window.
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Brave Echo Niner
Well-Known Member
Agree to disagree on that one Lee, I suspect if you do that then based off a quick calculation you'll be under 2200FPS shooting stuff beyond about 50M, maybe you'll be okay a bit further if you hit solid bone to initiate expansion, but it wouldn't be a combination I would choose!
This does also depend on what you are happy to accept with respect to run distance of course.
IMO (which you're obviously very welcome to ignore!) the 120 TTSX would be better suited, you'd easily get 2600FPS+ which would give you over 2200FPS out to 155M, more if you got higher velocity.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Busting shoulders solves that problem, i sling the shoulders the good stuff all goes in the freezer.
If you ever wanted an admission that copper bullets are inferior there it is!! Bust the shoulders and throw half the carcass away, ‘king brilliant.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
Half the carcass my arse!
For the record I’m using lead and I still skip the shoulders, not worth the time and effort to faff about with
Scipio
Well-Known Member
Hello mate, i also shoot a 7x57 (stutzen, with a 20.5 barrel), and in Denmark we have to shoot non leads now, so it is very interesting to hear your experiences with this bullet and weight
But may i ask why you chose to shoot such a, for a non fragmenting-non lead, quite heavy bullet?
I am only asking, as the common approach going from lead to non lead seems to be going 20-30 grains down in projectile weight due to the enhanced weight/SD retention for many non leads to most lead ammo options. I am just trying to harvest as much real life know how as i can here, so any feed back will be appreciated
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
This is an old article. There have been lots of developments in the last few years.
You could equally argue that lead cored bullets are inhumane. Shoot animals with 303 or 308 FMJ bullets - they will pencil through.
Shoot deer with high velocity varmint bullets - they will blow up and fail to penetrate to the vitals. Even some soft points at high velocities blow up.
Non lead bullets are no different. You need to choose a bullet that is suitable for what and where you are hunting.
The original Barnes bullet is superb in high velocity magnum type rifles on big tough elk or African plains game - its what they are designed for. The Winchester Copper Impact are similar.
They are not so good on light skined UK deer.
The TTSX, Fox, Sako, Blades are much better choices for UK deer.
If you go to use a low velocity rifle, or regularly shoot at ranges where impact velocities are low, then choose a bullet for those sorts of impact velocities.
If you use lead through the shoulder that is humane, what you do with the carcass is immaterial. My experience with copper (specifically with roe deer) using the same aim as with lead based bullets is not humane in my opinion. Everyone should look at Terminal Ballistics research, scroll down the Knowledge Base until you reach the article regarding the INHUMANE effects of copper bullets. There is a wealth of research and experience in there and I would take more notice of that than any bollox about the health risks. If anyone takes deer control seriously then having decided that something has to die, the least you can do is to make it humane. Absolutely end of rant!!
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