probably because they were nervous of applying common sense.
Not so humane dispatch
- Thread starter Irish Bob
- Start date
probably because they were nervous of applying common sense.
how the Hxxl would the police know you have a crowbar to pay special attention to youIf we were to carry a crowbar around in our vehicle, would we not receive special attention from the police? I doubt they'd accept a justification of doing so on the basis that we might come across an injured deer......
If you are involved in an accident or if they pull you over and want to check your car etc.
There is such a thing as going equipped to commit a crime.
It's a bit cuckoo to get involved in that stuff.
There is such a thing as going equipped to commit a crime.
It's a bit cuckoo to get involved in that stuff.
Steyer 6.5
Well-Known Member
Someone talking sense.^^^^ +1
however I don't understand why they moved it and then went back 48hours? They would have had to liaise with their control room as the incident played out? Authorisation for a shot is needed before one is taken (not allowed to make that decision on their own) so who above was consulted? All forces have Wildlife crime officers to assist with this type of incident so why was not one consulted?
i could go on. But the two officers have been dealt with and now are in a lesser post and the deer is dead. As fir some saying if I'd done this or that, I'd be in court. You try getting a conviction for animal cruelt or welfare and see how far you get.
If you were stopped and the vehicle searched....didnt think it was that difficult to work out..... 
how the Hxxl would the police know you have a crowbar to pay special attention to you
how the Hxxl would the police know you have a crowbar to pay special attention to you
That aside, is it for some reason unlawful to carry a crowbar in one's vehicle?
All the large animal vets I know hold firearms certificates. Some of the small animal vets don't.
As for following up with a dog - how do you intend to get permission from the landowner? The police can't absolve you of armed trespass.
Generally these RTA deer are usually pretty buggered OR have already moved off and there is no sign.
I suspect the opinion that Bambi is beyond help comes better from a vet than a bloke who likes shooting deer as a hobby.
I've said before - I don't enjoy this sort of work. I fail to see the attraction from stalkers. I do think you are INSANE to do the work for free. If they call me out they will get a bill. Both the RSPCA and the police pay.
There is nothing illegal about carryin a crowbar in your vehicle along with other tools, to actually be charged with going equipped to commit a crime the police would have to have reason to believe you were going to commit a crime.
I have had two accidents in my car where police attended, never did they search my car, I was pulled over once for a side light out, my car was not searched, I took a random breath test, I explained that there was two rifles in cases on the back seat, my car was not searched, where are all theses police officers searching cars too.
In my car I have a first aid kit, a knife, a wheel brace, climbing rope with carabiners, jack, two adjustable spanners, ear defenders, boots, hunting jacket, two meat hooks, several animal callers and two trays, all of which could be used for various crimes.
I have had two accidents in my car where police attended, never did they search my car, I was pulled over once for a side light out, my car was not searched, I took a random breath test, I explained that there was two rifles in cases on the back seat, my car was not searched, where are all theses police officers searching cars too.
In my car I have a first aid kit, a knife, a wheel brace, climbing rope with carabiners, jack, two adjustable spanners, ear defenders, boots, hunting jacket, two meat hooks, several animal callers and two trays, all of which could be used for various crimes.
Hi everyone. RTA is a public relations nightmare at the best of times, and as I am aware so far there still is little clear guidance or legislation for police vets and stalkers alike.
The problem is that police officers can not discharge their firearms without due cause, and as they are not trained in veterinary medicine they can not asses (and therefore conclude euthanasia must be performed) nor perform a kill shot on animals. public liability does not cover them for this also.
A stalker attending can only shoot the animal realistically, but the public does not like to see a hunter attending an injured animal and shooting it to ""save"" it from further suffering, not even talking about the public's outrage by shooting the depending offspring that is in the nearby field. (as stalkers you are not allowed to remove/move deer even if it is for treatment and dependent offspring is to be shot) Interestingly if you call the RSPCA they will happily remove a deer and treat it. which would be illegal for anyone, but they have the public's opinion backing I guess?
A vet attending will often have the problem that assessing is difficult (a deer will bolt of with one leg left on the pavement I can personally guarantee you) heavy sedation is often required and the whole process causes great stress to the deer. often you will have to resort to dart the animal to knock it down which in effect is more dangerous that shooting it with a free bullet. Lethal injection as for euthanasia might seem the "kindest method" in the public's eye but this would for me personally be the last resort. as the animal needs to be almost comatose to allow this and being in such a near dead state there are far better methods available.
As mentioned before the law is that any method is allowed that is reasonable to ensure a quick loss of consciousness and death, although suggested methods range from shotgun to specific knife cuts (jugular and thoracic vena cava). Personally I tend to use a captive bolt (no free bullet ricochet and in the relatively small scull instant death and no loud bangs) or if the animal is fairly mobile or in antlers a shotgun or free bullet weapon. From a purely animal welfare point of view I would say that blunt force trauma (crowbar hammer heavy stick or likewise) is a very effective method of inducing unconsciousness if a blow is struck with a steady hand and as much force as possible, afterwards however the animal should be bled ASAP to ensure that the animal will not wake up minutes later. Any postponing in waiting for vets stalkers and the like in my personal opinion is causing the animal unnecessary suffering. Captive bolt weapons do not fall under an FAC by the way so less legal hassle, a decent one would be about 150 pounds.
if attending RTA's be careful for liability, as mentioned before as a stalker BASC does not normally cover you (you can apply free of charge for this), and my veterinary insurance would not cover me if I use a hunting rifle to shoot it (not a veterinary act officially and as a vet you have a lot of public image responsibilities)
As said before in the posts the real problem is that they left the animal there for that long before finally putting it out of its misery. luckily the animal had not crawled away in a ditch yet... Getting your local police stations aware is easily done, just pop in and leave your details and they will thank you for it! (it is surprising how often they will call you for advise)
I am enrolled for the next RTA course given by the BDS so I will give you the latest on the practical/legal side once I have done it!
The problem is that police officers can not discharge their firearms without due cause, and as they are not trained in veterinary medicine they can not asses (and therefore conclude euthanasia must be performed) nor perform a kill shot on animals. public liability does not cover them for this also.
A stalker attending can only shoot the animal realistically, but the public does not like to see a hunter attending an injured animal and shooting it to ""save"" it from further suffering, not even talking about the public's outrage by shooting the depending offspring that is in the nearby field. (as stalkers you are not allowed to remove/move deer even if it is for treatment and dependent offspring is to be shot) Interestingly if you call the RSPCA they will happily remove a deer and treat it. which would be illegal for anyone, but they have the public's opinion backing I guess?
A vet attending will often have the problem that assessing is difficult (a deer will bolt of with one leg left on the pavement I can personally guarantee you) heavy sedation is often required and the whole process causes great stress to the deer. often you will have to resort to dart the animal to knock it down which in effect is more dangerous that shooting it with a free bullet. Lethal injection as for euthanasia might seem the "kindest method" in the public's eye but this would for me personally be the last resort. as the animal needs to be almost comatose to allow this and being in such a near dead state there are far better methods available.
As mentioned before the law is that any method is allowed that is reasonable to ensure a quick loss of consciousness and death, although suggested methods range from shotgun to specific knife cuts (jugular and thoracic vena cava). Personally I tend to use a captive bolt (no free bullet ricochet and in the relatively small scull instant death and no loud bangs) or if the animal is fairly mobile or in antlers a shotgun or free bullet weapon. From a purely animal welfare point of view I would say that blunt force trauma (crowbar hammer heavy stick or likewise) is a very effective method of inducing unconsciousness if a blow is struck with a steady hand and as much force as possible, afterwards however the animal should be bled ASAP to ensure that the animal will not wake up minutes later. Any postponing in waiting for vets stalkers and the like in my personal opinion is causing the animal unnecessary suffering. Captive bolt weapons do not fall under an FAC by the way so less legal hassle, a decent one would be about 150 pounds.
if attending RTA's be careful for liability, as mentioned before as a stalker BASC does not normally cover you (you can apply free of charge for this), and my veterinary insurance would not cover me if I use a hunting rifle to shoot it (not a veterinary act officially and as a vet you have a lot of public image responsibilities)
As said before in the posts the real problem is that they left the animal there for that long before finally putting it out of its misery. luckily the animal had not crawled away in a ditch yet... Getting your local police stations aware is easily done, just pop in and leave your details and they will thank you for it! (it is surprising how often they will call you for advise)
I am enrolled for the next RTA course given by the BDS so I will give you the latest on the practical/legal side once I have done it!
Excellent post, thank you.
Re the HD course,looking forward to the feedback.
Re the HD course,looking forward to the feedback.
Hope your luck lasts.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Whilst I'm not a vet i think i know when a deer needs a bit of my Tlc from my knife or handy crow bar. Many years ago i did stop and finish off a rta fallow while the police were present. Didn't seem to be a problem. They did seem a bit taken aback when my loony jack russel jumped out of the open van window and gave the dead fallow a good seeing too. I was on the way to do a park cull at the time.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Ah Taff, perhaps we arn't so paranoid as many seem to be.
This reminds of the time I was sitting around a campfire in Illinois , and the discussion came around to personel protection pistols, at the time most seemed to be toting kel tec 380, the odd ruger in .40 that fitted into a wallet holster, a couple of 1911 in various calibres, I asked if anyone had ever used them for self defence, there was a silence, no one had, a bit like the stalkers on this forum I doubt if any of them have had there vehicle searched or been threatened with going equipped or even had to humanly dispatch a deer
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
all of the stalkers that I know do this type of work because they are passionate about deer and there welfare and won't to give something back, they don't do it to make money or because they wish to own a pistol and are probably better place to where the incident has occurred rather then coming a vet in from miles away.
we did have an incident last year in a neighbouring Constabulary where a vet administered a lethal injection to a deer at the road side and it got up and ran off, now I am no vet but I don't think it's good to have a deer running around with all that anaesthetic still in it! it did cause a bit of concern for a while until the animal was tracked down and dispatched,
i guess we are all human and prone to mistakes like any other.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
Prob didn't have one 'cos he was paranoid. 
Trust me - it will be beyond help........
Thread beaten to death ?.
Humanely of course
Humanely of course
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