one deer rifle

[TheEngineer]

At the end of the day, any rifle of calibre 6.5mm to 8mm shooting a bullet of between 100 and 200 grains and making legal muzzle energy will do you for any deer species you could possibly want to shoot anywhere in Europe. It doesn't matter. Calibre is possibly the least important factor as all the calibres mentioned in this thread will do the same thing more or less out to 300 meters.

Far more important is a rifle that fits you, that you can shoot accurately, and that you enjoy using.

 

[Heym SR20]

Guys
what would be the best all round calibre for all species of uk deer i’m running a 222, 243, 6.5 x 55 and 308 at the moment


will keep the 222. but possibly looking to go to one calibre for all and as it’s looming and will shoot well with copper

cheers
phil

Of the 243, 6.5x55 and 308 it really doesn’t matter. Now that in Scotland the min bullet weight is 80gn there are plenty of good options for all three in terms of non toxic ammo.

I would look at the individual rifles - which do you reach for when going out stalking?

In terms of effect on deer, given the right choice of bullet in the correct place no deer will notice the difference and no vet would have any chance in keeping them alive.

Position of shot placement, exact bullet choice and an individual stalkers ability to get in range without alerting the deer will have more affect on response to shot that choice of cartridge.

But those with 243, 6.5x55, 270 or 308 will each shout the benefits of calibre of choice.

Those with a 7x57 will just smile.

 

[HonestJohn]

I love the .222, the swede, the 7x57 etc - however! If I wanted just one, simple, effective, ammo available everywhere, copper friendly, short barrel friendly to allow a moderator without becoming a poker, nice short action, light recoil, also big enough for all the big game in countries I’ll never visit,..it has to be the .308

If you reload and only reload, 7-08 would be another good one as you can go to 18”
Barrel

If only the 7x57 was 18” friendly, then that on a good Mauser 98 action

 

[25 Sharps]

All of those are enough for every species you have but I do understand you are not allowed to use 20cal on deer which is a shame for the UK.

You can in Scotland but has to be a 50 gr bullet

 

[Overlay]

In all honesty after putting a few through my mate’s 260 on paper I think Iwould plump for that 100%
But I’m not aware of any factory loads for the 260 so it’s hand load with a problem two places where I would use it require SDS on all ammunition used on site
Can you get 260 in lead and would it shoot NT when dragged into it

 

[Bowland blades]

In all honesty after putting a few through my mate’s 260 on paper I think Iwould plump for that 100%
But I’m not aware of any factory loads for the 260 so it’s hand load with a problem two places where I would use it require SDS on all ammunition used on site
Can you get 260 in lead and would it shoot NT when dragged into it

the 260 is just another 6.5 mm . Lightest bullets commonly available are 100 grain but you can get lighter, there has been lighter but not as light as the 6mm / 243 cartriges. The 6.5 creed , 6.5 sweed , 260 are all pretty even but the sweed wont work from 308 action size .
I prefer 260 with 100 grain ttsx for all uk deer 100 grain for vermin and 120 in lead ( 120 tTSX struggle with expansion) sometimes after 300
mine is 1-7.5 twist and it wont dust varmint bullets in flight even when i push the velocity , sp there is no reason to buy an old fashioned slower twist as you can run sub 100 grain over 3300 fps just great without them dusting in flight , no need for an older slower twist in my experiance

 

[25 Sharps]

In all honesty after putting a few through my mate’s 260 on paper I think Iwould plump for that 100%
But I’m not aware of any factory loads for the 260 so it’s hand load with a problem two places where I would use it require SDS on all ammunition used on site
Can you get 260 in lead and would it shoot NT when dragged into it

If that’s the case just get a creedmoor

 

[Overlay]

Said you would get board Phil.....I am sure Marg has house work she needs help with...

Hahaha yes I’m still on house arrest and crutches, did get out Saturday night though for a few shots, few rabbits for the pot and a couple of close foxes, on a positive side when the release green light comes on I’ll have plenty to do

On reflection wouldn’t recommend a trapped nerve in your hip and knee particularly at the same time

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I have one rifle as well. Ok I have two, but they are the same model Sauer 202. With (up to press) three barrels, 6.5x55 .270 and 30-06.
I pretty much agree with the old adage beware the man with one gun! He’ll know how to use it!!

I do actually have one deer rifle. A Mauser MO3 - but I do have two barrels and have a variation in for a third !
300 WM - fair mild load throwing out 180 grain Barnes TSX and has been used on every UK species without much meat damage. Now reserved for Scottish or UK reds/sika.
A 6.5 x 55 barrel. That’s my ‘go to’ calibre for most of my stalking dealing with muntjac, roe, fallow all the time. It has dealt with reds, but I prefer the Winmag for that. I can also see a clear reaction to shot with 6.5 that I certainly can’t see with WM.
I’m awaiting a variation for a .308 barrel - for what exactly you may ask. Just in case I need it and as the MO3 isn’t made anymore, new barrels will not be made and therefore the flexibility of being able to keep it little used does appeal.
The real advantage of a switch barrel rifle for me is this - I’m always handling the same rifle stock/trigger/scope so I’m familiar with what pressure is needed to do what job etc. so I SHOULD be more accurate.

There’s quite a few quote the action length and ability to shoot long for calibre bullets. The 55 has always worked with long bullets.
As for action length ok for some it’s an advantage. But the number of people who have it in a Sauer or Blazer or T3 kinda defeat the object.

260, 6.5 creed , 6.5x55 there aint a heap of difference . other than the creed is built to handle longer for calibre high BC modern bullets. I run 3300 fps with my 260 with 100 grain tTSX , its a shorter barrel built for hunting with a mod fitted and has a faster lead lapped bore . a similar build in 6.5x 55 might well run a tad faster but it would not be a tangible gain , probably get more gains finding a more efficient bullet design ?

Still a bit of a grey area though. I have a 9” twist 20 Tactical and 50gn Burger bullets. They will make the legal requirements for speed and energy. But IIRC the designed to expand bit is a potential problem.

You can in Scotland but has to be a 50 gr bullet

 

[Bowland blades]

I have one rifle as well. Ok I have two, but they are the same model Sauer 202. With (up to press) three barrels, 6.5x55 .270 and 30-06.
I pretty much agree with the old adage beware the man with one gun! He’ll know how to use it!!

There’s quite a few quote the action length and ability to shoot long for calibre bullets. The 55 has always worked with long bullets.
As for action length ok for some it’s an advantage. But the number of people who have it in a Sauer or Blazer or T3 kinda defeat the object.

Still a bit of a grey area though. I have a 9” twist 20 Tactical and 50gn Burger bullets. They will make the legal requirements for speed and energy. But IIRC the designed to expand bit is a potential problem.

Haven't the foggiest what you where trying to comment on in my post you quoted

 

[HonestJohn]

Haven't the foggiest what you where trying to comment on in my post you quoted

Probably just trying to provoke a reaction, and he got it!

 

[Envillegc1]

A conundrum!

If you are not doing long range Reds/Sika then any of them will do the job well. It’s all about shot placement. Bigger calibres give you a margin for error. If you shoot a lot in Scotland, then a 6.5/7.0 mm Creedmoor or keep the 308/Swede. If I had to keep one it would be the 243 instead of the 222 and the swede

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Haven't the foggiest what you where trying to comment on in my post you quoted

You commented the 6.5CM was designed to take longer high BC bullets, I pointed out that the 6.5 x 55 always worked with long bullets. Due to its fast for calibre twist. The other advantage many quote for the CM is the ability to fit it in a short action. An advantage that quite a few manufacturers make obsolete building one action fits all rifles. like those I named.
I was simply adding to your point that there's not much in it between the 6.5's, that any slight advantages are mitigated by other factors. So it's more a case of pick your poison, or rather choose whichever one you like most and you can feed easily.

 

[Bowland blades]

You commented the 6.5CM was designed to take longer high BC bullets, I pointed out that the 6.5 x 55 always worked with long bullets. Due to its fast for calibre twist. The other advantage many quote for the CM is the ability to fit it in a short action. An advantage that quite a few manufacturers make obsolete building one action fits all rifles. like those I named.
I was simply adding to your point that there's not much in it between the 6.5's, that any slight advantages are mitigated by other factors. So it's more a case of pick your poison, or rather choose whichever one you like most and you can feed easily.

It might just be worth mentioning what the creedmore changed ... It allowed long slick high BC bullets through a different longer throat with a fast 1-8 twist to stabilize them . The 6.5x55 worked with traditional round nosed bullets , its twist rate slower and it was done in the shorter 308 action.
I personally shoot a 260 rem with a 1-7.5 I have no need for the extra long match bullets bit more case capacity than the creed , not my much but it doesn't half sling 100 and 120 tTSX bullets
260 is just the 308 necked down or a 243 necked up.
I am just renewing my FAC and have put down for the 6 mm creed as itt gives the deer / fox rifle higher BC longer bullets over and above the 243 and of course it has a long throat and so i am not crunching the powder .

 

[scotch_egg]

It might just be worth mentioning what the creedmore changed ... It allowed long slick high BC bullets through a different longer throat with a fast 1-8 twist to stabilize them . The 6.5x55 worked with traditional round nosed bullets , its twist rate slower and it was done in the shorter 308 action.
I personally shoot a 260 rem with a 1-7.5 I have no need for the extra long match bullets bit more case capacity than the creed , not my much but it doesn't half sling 100 and 120 tTSX bullets
260 is just the 308 necked down or a 243 necked up.
I am just renewing my FAC and have put down for the 6 mm creed as itt gives the deer / fox rifle higher BC longer bullets over and above the 243 and of course it has a long throat and so i am not crunching the powder .

What the shorter case of the creedmoor allows is the bullet to be seated out further in the case so it doesn’t encroach on powder capacity. The throat isn’t long for calibre.

For example in your .260 on a short action you are limited to a 2.9” magazine. A 140gr bullet needs to be pushed deeper into the case to allow for the OAL restriction. This limits the amount of powder you can fit into the case and therefore the bang for your buck as the bullet is seated well below the neck shoulder junction.

The saami pressure of .260 is 60k and 6.5 creedmoor 63k. The 6.5x55 is 55k due in part because of the older rifles it was chambered in. When hand loaded it can be ramped up a bit for its true potential and compete with the “modern” alternatives.

I have never seen a 6.5X55 done in a short action. They were however loaded with a 160gr round nose for moose in the Scandinavian states.

As for the 6mm creedmoor again it can be loaded long for the 108 and 115gr bullets again so it isn’t limiting powder volume. It is also chambered in a fast twist barrel to stabilise these heavier projectiles. Due to the operating pressure of the shorter cartridge they achieve higher velocity on a shorter barrel. I’m yet to chrono mine, but I’m sure it will be ripping the 87gr v-max out of the 20” barrel at a higher velocity than the equivalent.243. Best part is I can utilise 6.5 creedmoor brass which was why I went with it over the 6XC.

 

[Bowland blades]

What the shorter case of the creedmoor allows is the bullet to be seated out further in the case so it doesn’t encroach on powder capacity. The throat isn’t long for calibre.

For example in your .260 on a short action you are limited to a 2.9” magazine. A 140gr bullet needs to be pushed deeper into the case to allow for the OAL restriction. This limits the amount of powder you can fit into the case and therefore the bang for your buck as the bullet is seated well below the neck shoulder junction.

The saami pressure of .260 is 60k and 6.5 creedmoor 63k. The 6.5x55 is 55k due in part because of the older rifles it was chambered in. When hand loaded it can be ramped up a bit for its true potential and compete with the “modern” alternatives.

I have never seen a 6.5X55 done in a short action. They were however loaded with a 160gr round nose for moose in the Scandinavian states.

As for the 6mm creedmoor again it can be loaded long for the 108 and 115gr bullets again so it isn’t limiting powder volume. It is also chambered in a fast twist barrel to stabilise these heavier projectiles. Due to the operating pressure of the shorter cartridge they achieve higher velocity on a shorter barrel. I’m yet to chrono mine, but I’m sure it will be ripping the 87gr v-max out of the 20” barrel at a higher velocity than the equivalent.243. Best part is I can utilise 6.5 creedmoor brass which was why I went with it over the 6XC.

Your statement is somewhat contradictory ! You have to have a longer throat if the long high BC bullets the Creed was designed to send