One for one variation procedure - why?

[Greenmist]

as it was exlplained to me when you part with the rifle your reason for owning it ends and then the need to apply for a 1 for 1 variation so they can confirm you still have good reason to replace it. But it is like a lot of the firearms legislation unnecessary bureaucracy.

And yet, when I come back from holiday I don't hand in my passport as I no longer need it, nor do I resit my driving test when I swap vehicles. It's an awkward system on purpose

 

[C h r i s]

Agree with the suggestion that it should be a case of permission granted to one a .22 so you should be able to chop and change the rifle as many times as you like as long as the police are notified. The OFO is a waste of police and cert holders time.

One significant problem. How does the seller know that are are actually authorised to purchase the new rifle? If he checks your FAC and it shows you have authority to acquire a rifle of whatever calibre, say .22, then he checks table 1 and can see that you have a .22 listed there, but you've actually just sold it to someone the day before, then how does the seller confirm that is actually the case and that you're not purchasing beyond your authority?

Unless we have access to a fully online/digital system I cant see this ever working.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Change the rules so that disposals and acquisitions can only be done through an RFD (most are anyway), and make a minor modification to the current firearm certificate to include a box against each firearm allowing details of its disposal (RFD number and date) to be entered
The seller walks into the RFD with a rifle already on his certificate.
The physical presence of the rifle and it's serial number on his certificate proves to the RFD that the seller does have possession of the rifle on his certificate.
The RFD can then take in the rifle and sell another rifle of the same calibre to the certificate holder
The RFD writes the details of the disposal and acquisition in the certificate and the police are notified of the changes in the usual way.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[timbrayford]

One significant problem. How does the seller know that are are actually authorised to purchase the new rifle? If he checks your FAC and it shows you have authority to acquire a rifle of whatever calibre, say .22, then he checks table 1 and can see that you have a .22 listed there, but you've actually just sold it to someone the day before, then how does the seller confirm that is actually the case and that you're not purchasing beyond your authority?

Unless we have access to a fully online/digital system I cant see this ever working.

Or simply move s1 to s2 perhaps?

 

[C h r i s]

Or simply move s1 to s2 perhaps?

I wish they would, I got moaned at last year by my licensing department for asking for too many variations!

 

[gixer1]

One significant problem. How does the seller know that are are actually authorised to purchase the new rifle? If he checks your FAC and it shows you have authority to acquire a rifle of whatever calibre, say .22, then he checks table 1 and can see that you have a .22 listed there, but you've actually just sold it to someone the day before, then how does the seller confirm that is actually the case and that you're not purchasing beyond your authority?

Unless we have access to a fully online/digital system I cant see this ever working.

The person that bought the rifle would need to enter the rifle onto their FAC and it would automatically remove it from your FAC (electronically)

 

[C h r i s]

Can you imagine how long a fully electronic system would take to get up and running.... no chance in my lifetime!

 

[old man]

In addition to the above it's also the unending quest by all officialdom to obtain every crumb of your personal information.
Simply, easier to pursue the law abiding than the others?

 

[cjm1066]

You can't even get a replacement mod without a variation, although there is a crafty work around for rimfire. Buy a mod for a sub 12 air rifle which is also rimfire rated, e.g. SAC mods.

That fine until you fit it to a FAC rifle, it then needs to be on your FAC.

Of course it unscrews

 

[nic531]

Slightly different to what you quote. I wanted a 6.5 but wasn't sure what to go for 6.5cm 6.5x55 6.5x47. It's perfectly acceptable to state on form 201 6.5 this then gives you the option to pick what you prefer in that bracket.

on my ticket i have 5.56/223 as i have a wild chambered gun so perfectly ok to fire milsurp ammo at the higher pressures as well as 223 that way now hassle if stopped or when buying ammo

 

[nic531]

Its to prevent the royal family and establishment being overthrown by the peasants returning from WW1!

bit late then, current act came in in the 60's

 

[purdey24]

The OFO system can be quite flexible, it does not have to be the same calibre.
I got a OFO to change my .17 for a .22 hornet.

 

[Greenmist]

Can you imagine how long a fully electronic system would take to get up and running.... no chance in my lifetime!

I'd imagine an existing system could be modified and up and running quite easily, when you consider a banking app allows you to view your account - that could be an FAC, transfer funds - that could be selling/receiving a firearm buying ammunition or reloading components. Add to it fingerprint, facial or iris recognition security of a smart phone and its the full package, just needs someone to push for it really. Passports and driving licences, in fact every government department is available on line yet firearms remains in the victorian era. Perhaps @Conor O'Gorman will pass it on to his colleagues who are drafting the firearms licensing reform (again Conor, I'll waive my fee)

 

[Alantoo]

I cannot see any rational justification for the micro management of variations at all.

Once you have your driving licence you can own and drive any car...whether it is a 5 litre Mercedes or a fiat 500....and any number of cars...they are all registered with Swansea and you notify who is the new owner when you buy and sell. It is the driver not the vehicle that poses a risk to others.

Seems a reasonable model to follow for firearms.

Indeed, a precedent even closer to home....once you have been vetted and approved for a shotgun you can buy and sell as many as you like whatever the chambering...you just let the FLO know when it has changed hands possession...why can't rifles be just the same? Once the rifleman has been adjudged safe to possess and use a rifle how is there any increased risk to the public if he has one or one hundred guns? Most centre fires are capable of sending a bullet a couple of miles so the hazard is identical between calibres or chamberings. An unsafe shot with a .22 is no less of a risk than an unsafe shot with a 308.

Hey ho.

Alan

 

[Dickie]

All the suggestions are about simplifying and making it easier for gun owners and ownership which the authorities don’t want .
so it’ll never happen.

 

[C h r i s]

in fact every government department is available on line yet firearms remains in the victorian era. Perhaps @Conor O'Gorman will pass it on to his colleagues who are drafting the firearms licensing reform (again Conor, I'll waive my fee)

As do many shooters, many are not tech savvy and don't do computers, never mind those new fangled smart phones - will never catch on!

 

[kripton]

In years gone by my cert would allow me to acquire a "30 calibre" rifle - now they insist on specifying the particular calibre - e.g. .308 or 30.06 or 300wsm etc.

 

[garybuilder]

GMP asked some of our local rfd. if they had any suggestions that would help to make the system work better the idea of a straight swap for rifles without a variation was brought up GMP agreeded it would be better all round but they could not do it because of some law written many many years ago.
a bit of common would help some were along the line wouldn't it ?

 

[308tikka]

I'm hoping that someone can explain the legal basis for the current system the police require to be followed for a one for one variation.
e.g I have a 22 rimfire rifle on my certificate and I want to trade it in to a local RFD and purchase another 22 rimfire rifle from him
At present, it is my understanding that if want to do this without giving the police any money, the following procedure needs to be followed:
a. Dispose of my existing 22 rimfire rifle and inform the police of that fact within 7 days of the disposal
b. Send my existing certificate along with the form applying for a variation for a 22 rimfire rifle to the police and wait for them to process that application and send out a new certificate which contains an authority to purchase a 22 rimfire rifle
c. Go to the RFD, present my new certificate showing the authority to purchase and take possession of the new rifle
I have read (and re-read) the firearms act but cannot find anything close to any legal reasoning for why this procedure is necessary
I really think that this is a part of the firearms licensing process which could be simplified and provide benefits to both gun owners and the police.

Cheers

Bruce

Because if it was easy, we would have a robust gun trade and a vibrant shooting population?

 

[308tikka]

In years gone by my cert would allow me to acquire a "30 calibre" rifle - now they insist on specifying the particular calibre - e.g. .308 or 30.06 or 300wsm etc.

I have space on my ticket for ‘6mm’ and ‘6.5mm’.

I can buy what I want. Then I have to put in for a variation for ammunition holdings for that calibre. Albeit no charge.