Overdue Jabs

jimmy milnes

Well-Known Member
So the dogs annual jabs should have been done around 6 or 7 weeks ago and I've just phoned the vets to book them in,
Apparently if they go 12 weeks past due date they need to start the full course and just the booster won't suffice.
Could any of the vets on here please confirm if this is true or if medivets are trying to have my pants down as I thought the cut off was 18 months ie. 20 odd weeks overdue.
Cheers
Jimmy
 
So the dogs annual jabs should have been done around 6 or 7 weeks ago and I've just phoned the vets to book them in,
Apparently if they go 12 weeks past due date they need to start the full course and just the booster won't suffice.
Could any of the vets on here please confirm if this is true or if medivets are trying to have my pants down as I thought the cut off was 18 months ie. 20 odd weeks overdue.
Cheers
Jimmy
I had a similar situation last year though in my case the boosters were several months out of compliance. I too thought that the company was trying to pull a fast one, especially as a well respected vet had told me some years previously that giving booster jabs to dogs over 10 years old which had been regularly vaccinated was being overly cautious, as by that age the dogs had already attained a certain degree of lasting immunity.
I also reminded them that the reason the dogs hadn't received their booster jabs was because their surgery had been closed due to covid so it was something out of my control. In the end they agreed that only one booster jab was necessary and the fee was much cheaper than what they had originally quoted for starting from scratch again.
 
It was some time ago jimmy. but the first vet I ever went to was Mr Wilkinson, a James Herriot type vet nearly 40 years ago. My dog at the time was a cur bred lurcher, we had the initial two jabs as a puppy, and the 1st yearly booster, when I took her back the following year he told me I really need not bother, as the important bit of the vaccine was 'live' I think he said and lasted for much longer than a year, and with a fit healthy working dog that encounters plenty of bugs and bacteria it was wasting my money... vets have changed of course in the intervening years, and they like to empty your wallet as often as they can in my neck of the woods! I'm not sure if his advice is sound today.
 
It was some time ago jimmy. but the first vet I ever went to was Mr Wilkinson, a James Herriot type vet nearly 40 years ago. My dog at the time was a cur bred lurcher, we had the initial two jabs as a puppy, and the 1st yearly booster, when I took her back the following year he told me I really need not bother, as the important bit of the vaccine was 'live' I think he said and lasted for much longer than a year, and with a fit healthy working dog that encounters plenty of bugs and bacteria it was wasting my money... vets have changed of course in the intervening years, and they like to empty your wallet as often as they can in my neck of the woods! I'm not sure if his advice is sound today.
Other than the initial 2 jabs as a puppy I have never had a dog jabbed again, and I’ve had plenty of them with no issues, not advising it but it’s worked out ok for me!
 
It was some time ago jimmy. but the first vet I ever went to was Mr Wilkinson, a James Herriot type vet nearly 40 years ago. My dog at the time was a cur bred lurcher, we had the initial two jabs as a puppy, and the 1st yearly booster, when I took her back the following year he told me I really need not bother, as the important bit of the vaccine was 'live' I think he said and lasted for much longer than a year, and with a fit healthy working dog that encounters plenty of bugs and bacteria it was wasting my money... vets have changed of course in the intervening years, and they like to empty your wallet as often as they can in my neck of the woods! I'm not sure if his advice is sound today.
Unfortunately good old fashioned INDIPENDANT vets are a rarity these days, I wish that I could find one near to me. The vets that I have used for years and years have sold out to the big companies who only seem to employ young inexperienced vets who frankly don't inspire any confidence whatsoever.
 
Don't the better organised vets contact you when the boosters are due? Mine does, rather like a MOT or a dentist.
Not denying it yes they did contact me a couple of months back but with one thing and another life got in the way of booking
 
Unfortunately good old fashioned INDIPENDANT vets are a rarity these days, I wish that I could find one near to me. The vets that I have used for years and years have sold out to the big companies who only seem to employ young inexperienced vets who frankly don't inspire any confidence whatsoever.
Yep the big players are buying up all the small practices and getting the monopoly. It's happening all over.
 
Call me a cynic, but during Lockdown I was told by my vets that boosters weren’t needed if my dogs had the initial course as pups and at least one yearly booster.
Now it’s they must have a booster every year again.
 
My vet only puts the month now on the dog vacation cards so gives a little bit of leeway . Horses vaccination on the other hand, one day over the vaccination expiry date and it start again from scratch 🙄. 3 jabs over 120 days
 
Overdue vaccines is a complex one and there is no one correct answer. Is your dogs immunity going to suddenly expire after 1 year count down style!? No, it won't, but it is likely to reduce over time and potentially up to a point where the immune response would convey little protective effect if the animal is challenged by leptospirosis.
Normal core vaccination schedules vary product to product but generally speaking pups get a primary course of 2 injections as youngsters and then a full booster 12 months after that. This usually consists of vaccines covering Distemper, Hepatitis, Parvo virus and a 2 or 4 strain lepto vaccine. Durations of immunity differ from product to product and manufacturer to manufacturer but often will recommend that after the initial booster at 1 year of age DHP revaccination can be done every 3 years. Now there have been instances of dogs that have demonstrated detectable immunity up to 7 years after the initial vaccines. However these are relatively few cases and usually in dogs that either reacted badly to initial vaccines or whose owners do not like the idea of over vaccination. I am not aware of that many good studies demonstrating CONSISTENT extended immunity. Sure it can happen but we don't know which animals will and which wont. Your spaniel might but your lab might not and vice versa. If you are so minded you can perform vaccine titre testing which will give you an idea of their levels of immunity but often costs more than the vaccine!
Now the above is not quite as applicable for lepto. Lepto immunity is much more difficult to assess and vaccinal immunity has been shown to be less long lived. The rough guide that we have been applying has been that up to 6 weeks overdue is not much issue but 3 months is really the max delay if we are to be confident of a good "booster" response. Longer and the recommendation has been to restart.

The other considerations surrounding vaccination are risk vs benefit. Now who is at more risk... Mrs Fenella Von Peaches the chihua-poo-**** for whom the closest she will come to a rodent is a rerun of Tom and Gerry or Badger the patterdale who has killed more rats than Neosorexa?
Peaches likely doesn't need a lepto vaccine, but I'd want to be giving badger one every year! It is fare to say that working dogs are much more likely to be in contact with or at risk from lepto that many "house pets"
The other factor to bare in mind with lepto is that vaccination is not just to prevent/reduce disease it is also to help reduce the likelihood that an animal infected with lepto will become a carrier. Lepto is able to colonise the kidney and essentially live there and shed out in that animals urine, contaminating the environment. Vaccination helps to reduce this.

Now we can get into the big pharma debate. Why are there limited studies into immunity duration? Well studies take a lot of time and money and very often they are only undertaken if there is a point/gain to be made. What is the benefit of a company proving that you don't need their product? They need to prove it works but beyond it working for a reasonable period, they have no interest in proving that. Now I am not aiming to criticise companies, if they dont make money, they dont undertake R&D and you dont get products to use but the reality still stands.

Then finally there is the liability angle. We as vets have to advise and recommend based on what we know and can prove. We can only recommend based on the data we have and are given (often byt he drug companies) and in a world where seemingly people love to play vet-lynch I err on the side of caution. Otherwise if I tell Mr/Mrs Barrister-Lawyer-Professor-of-fine-arts that Miffy will be ok just having a booster even though she is 6 months overdue, and then she gets lepto, guess who gets the unlubricated rod of the law with no leg to stand on!? yeah I do because I didn't give the "correct advice"

Personally, I am more than happy to discuss the pros cons and issues surrounding these situations but then the ultimate decision is up to the owner, I will answer questions and offer guidance but I stress that my recommendation is XYZ and if the owner chooses another path then that is their decision and the consequences are also theirs. But I will say one thing...I much prefer vaccinating for Lepto than treating it (however rarely) as they often just go yellow and then cold!

If you made it this far...hats off to your patience!
 
Cynic no more.
Thank you for a very informative posts
Many years ago had a lab that had leptospirosis even though he had been jabbed. Miracle he survived
 
The dog was in the vets for a couple of weeks , wouldn’t eat so I was taking in boiled rabbit every day which did the trick and got his appetite back. The vet said as he was a young fit working dog it had helped his recovery no end.
Interestingly for the rest of his life the whites of his eyes were yellow and he never had any colour in his jowls. He lived until he was 13.
 
Overdue vaccines is a complex one and there is no one correct answer. Is your dogs immunity going to suddenly expire after 1 year count down style!? No, it won't, but it is likely to reduce over time and potentially up to a point where the immune response would convey little protective effect if the animal is challenged by leptospirosis.
Normal core vaccination schedules vary product to product but generally speaking pups get a primary course of 2 injections as youngsters and then a full booster 12 months after that. This usually consists of vaccines covering Distemper, Hepatitis, Parvo virus and a 2 or 4 strain lepto vaccine. Durations of immunity differ from product to product and manufacturer to manufacturer but often will recommend that after the initial booster at 1 year of age DHP revaccination can be done every 3 years. Now there have been instances of dogs that have demonstrated detectable immunity up to 7 years after the initial vaccines. However these are relatively few cases and usually in dogs that either reacted badly to initial vaccines or whose owners do not like the idea of over vaccination. I am not aware of that many good studies demonstrating CONSISTENT extended immunity. Sure it can happen but we don't know which animals will and which wont. Your spaniel might but your lab might not and vice versa. If you are so minded you can perform vaccine titre testing which will give you an idea of their levels of immunity but often costs more than the vaccine!
Now the above is not quite as applicable for lepto. Lepto immunity is much more difficult to assess and vaccinal immunity has been shown to be less long lived. The rough guide that we have been applying has been that up to 6 weeks overdue is not much issue but 3 months is really the max delay if we are to be confident of a good "booster" response. Longer and the recommendation has been to restart.

The other considerations surrounding vaccination are risk vs benefit. Now who is at more risk... Mrs Fenella Von Peaches the chihua-poo-**** for whom the closest she will come to a rodent is a rerun of Tom and Gerry or Badger the patterdale who has killed more rats than Neosorexa?
Peaches likely doesn't need a lepto vaccine, but I'd want to be giving badger one every year! It is fare to say that working dogs are much more likely to be in contact with or at risk from lepto that many "house pets"
The other factor to bare in mind with lepto is that vaccination is not just to prevent/reduce disease it is also to help reduce the likelihood that an animal infected with lepto will become a carrier. Lepto is able to colonise the kidney and essentially live there and shed out in that animals urine, contaminating the environment. Vaccination helps to reduce this.

Now we can get into the big pharma debate. Why are there limited studies into immunity duration? Well studies take a lot of time and money and very often they are only undertaken if there is a point/gain to be made. What is the benefit of a company proving that you don't need their product? They need to prove it works but beyond it working for a reasonable period, they have no interest in proving that. Now I am not aiming to criticise companies, if they dont make money, they dont undertake R&D and you dont get products to use but the reality still stands.

Then finally there is the liability angle. We as vets have to advise and recommend based on what we know and can prove. We can only recommend based on the data we have and are given (often byt he drug companies) and in a world where seemingly people love to play vet-lynch I err on the side of caution. Otherwise if I tell Mr/Mrs Barrister-Lawyer-Professor-of-fine-arts that Miffy will be ok just having a booster even though she is 6 months overdue, and then she gets lepto, guess who gets the unlubricated rod of the law with no leg to stand on!? yeah I do because I didn't give the "correct advice"

Personally, I am more than happy to discuss the pros cons and issues surrounding these situations but then the ultimate decision is up to the owner, I will answer questions and offer guidance but I stress that my recommendation is XYZ and if the owner chooses another path then that is their decision and the consequences are also theirs. But I will say one thing...I much prefer vaccinating for Lepto than treating it (however rarely) as they often just go yellow and then cold!

If you made it this far...hats off to your patience!
Hi on a similar subject can you tell if there is any risk from having a L4 second jab within a few days of getting my bitch covered. I too had to have a re-start and there seems to very little info for this situation. Many thanks
 
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