Pistol for humane dispatch

[paultap]

Guys, thanks for your input. I have read some relevant posts and also have received a few PM's which have been helpful in answering the points on my thread. It looks like this thread has turned into a debate on handgun ownership for Humane dispatch for stalking purposes which was not the purpose of the thread. It is also getting a bit heated at times too!

Many seem to feel that a pistol is not necessary, which is fine (although dare I politely say it, not really relevant to the original questions asked in the thread) and there are some from this group who seem to want to criticise or question the motives of people for having a different opinion, with even professional stalkers feeling the need to justify to others on this site why they carry a pistol for such purposes.

Without wishing to offend anyone, I feel that those who recommend a 410 shotgun (folding or not) as a viable alternative or better option are missing the point. Are you really going to go stalking carrying a stalking rifle and a 410 shotgun on your person? (It wouldn't be of any immediate use to you if you had to travel back miles to collect it for example)

I am possibly opening myself up for a barrage of criticism for this post/ thread but could we just be polite to each other and agree to disagree if you happen to disapprove of HD pistol ownership.

many thanks.

 

[sikamalc]

There has been a few words that Admin have removed from certain posts on this subject. Admin would like to point out that such language will not be tolerated and if this occurs again the poster will be removed from the site. The site rules are clearly laid out.

Thank you

 

[Minto]

I have a close friend who works in forestry and deals with a lot of deer. His beat is at varying stages of growth, restock to forty year old trees. He has had to deal with humane dispatch in all stages of the forest structure. He has no pistol and says even in very thick thicket a rifle is not a problem. Okay in the dark it is but if it’s night time the beast gets left alone until the following morning. If people think they need a pistol that’s their prerogative and good luck to them.

 

[Klenchblaize]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the stutzen. I can shoot my fully stocked Rem 600 one-handed as its so light and maneuverable:

K

 

[Monkey Spanker]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the stutzen. I can shoot my fully stocked Rem 600 one-handed as its so light and maneuverable:

K

That's a great idea! If you put a scope on it you could then use it for stalking as well! I think we just found the perfect alternative to a pistol - it was a rifle all along!!
MS

 

[User00025]

And I was always taught that sort of rifle was a carbine and with a Stutzen the wood went to the end of the barrel (more or less)

 

[flying felix]

Sorry, been away stalking.
An 'extreme ricochet' is one that comes off a solid surface such as a piece of flint or tarmac!

Strangely enough after being professionally involved with ammunition and explosives for over 30 years, I've never heard anyone use this phrase nor read it in any publications, can you please cite a peer reviewed publication or article that gives an accepted technical definition for an "extreme ricochet".

Sorry, been away stalking.

There is no better excuse

The development of frangible ammunition followed along two lines. The first was for a projectile that would not over penetrate a target and the second was to produce a projectile that would disintegrate on impact in order to reduce damage on ranges.

The Glaser Safety Slug is an example of the first and it's design has already be described by others, however, contrary to popular belief it was not designed not to penetrate the skin of an aircraft. It will. A bullet sized hole in the skin in an aircraft will result in the slow decompression, not explosive compression as depicted by Hollywood. The specification was for the project not to penetrate through a standard aircraft seat or an adult human torso.

The second was due to saving money and well as trying to reduce the lead content in ranges. Most commonly made of compressed powders and a good example is the Hatton round, which is a 1 oz shotgun slug. Although this was actually designed to remove padlocks, door locks and hinges and was made from compressed dental cement.

A third option, which isn't frangible is what's known as a Shotshell, which is a very thin plastic projectile filled with shotgun pellets. It was developed for use in pistols against snakes in the USA. On firing the plastic case breaks up turning the firearm into a small shotgun.

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Guys, thanks for your input. I have read some relevant posts and also have received a few PM's which have been helpful in answering the points on my thread. It looks like this thread has turned into a debate on handgun ownership for Humane dispatch for stalking purposes which was not the purpose of the thread. It is also getting a bit heated at times too!

Many seem to feel that a pistol is not necessary, which is fine (although dare I politely say it, not really relevant to the original questions asked in the thread) and there are some from this group who seem to want to criticise or question the motives of people for having a different opinion, with even professional stalkers feeling the need to justify to others on this site why they carry a pistol for such purposes.

Without wishing to offend anyone, I feel that those who recommend a 410 shotgun (folding or not) as a viable alternative or better option are missing the point. Are you really going to go stalking carrying a stalking rifle and a 410 shotgun on your person? (It wouldn't be of any immediate use to you if you had to travel back miles to collect it for example)

I am possibly opening myself up for a barrage of criticism for this post/ thread but could we just be polite to each other and agree to disagree if you happen to disapprove of HD pistol ownership.

many thanks.

Ive had many diferent pistols for humane dispatch.

Currently Dorset allowed me a .22 semi auto with a silencer. This was granted for both deer and fox.

It gets used predominantly for dispatching trapped fox's as i have come across many issues where urban foxes are being fed by one household and loathed by another,
The pistol is both discreet and quiet which makes it perfect for the job in built up areas.

There have been countless threads on here where fellow shooters have chosen not to support each other. Some even saying a complete pistol ban would suit them so no wonder as a shooting community we are in the state we are.
Its incredibly sad when someone who has no need for something then attempts to selfishly impose their wishes on others.

I now live in Hampshire and on my renewal will need to justify my semi auto. This will be done via logged customers and records then i will have to wait and see if this is acceptable.

As a shooting community the fact there is no level playing field regarding all Firearms licensing should be legally questionable.

So in answer to your question.. i think it is all area and force relevant but with constructive dialogue and good justification theres no reason why anybody who feels something is relevant for them personally shouldnt set out to achieve it.

 

[Rake Aboot]

I have a close friend who works in forestry and deals with a lot of deer. His beat is at varying stages of growth, restock to forty year old trees. He has had to deal with humane dispatch in all stages of the forest structure. He has no pistol and says even in very thick thicket a rifle is not a problem. Okay in the dark it is but if it’s night time the beast gets left alone until the following morning. If people think they need a pistol that’s their prerogative and good luck to them.

I`ll just park that one there.

 

[dropmdead]

To put the thread approximately back on subject, the OP knows his ground and circumstances, and feels that maybe he has been in the position of " needing and not having" at certain times.
Irrespective, we all have a job to do when out, and that primarily is if we pull the trigger, we should do our best in the humane taking of the deer, and have all the tools at hand to fulfill this duty.
We all shoot different calibers of rifles,want the best of equipment,want the most accurate of ammo that shoots .75 moa on a bad day....
What ever firearm we all apply for, we must have good reason for...

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Strangely enough after being professionally involved with ammunition and explosives for over 30 years, I've never heard anyone use this phrase nor read it in any publications, can you please cite a peer reviewed publication or article that gives an accepted technical definition for an "extreme ricochet".




There is no better excuse

The development of frangible ammunition followed along two lines. The first was for a projectile that would not over penetrate a target and the second was to produce a projectile that would disintegrate on impact in order to reduce damage on ranges.

The Glaser Safety Slug is an example of the first and it's design has already be described by others, however, contrary to popular belief it was not designed not to penetrate the skin of an aircraft. It will. A bullet sized hole in the skin in an aircraft will result in the slow decompression, not explosive compression as depicted by Hollywood. The specification was for the project not to penetrate through a standard aircraft seat or an adult human torso.

The second was due to saving money and well as trying to reduce the lead content in ranges. Most commonly made of compressed powders and a good example is the Hatton round, which is a 1 oz shotgun slug. Although this was actually designed to remove padlocks, door locks and hinges and was made from compressed dental cement.

A third option, which isn't frangible is what's known as a Shotshell, which is a very thin plastic projectile filled with shotgun pellets. It was developed for use in pistols against snakes in the USA. On firing the plastic case breaks up turning the firearm into a small shotgun.

You probably won't have heard the 'phrase' extreme ricochet, as it is not a phrase as such, just two words put together. An adjective and a noun. The Germans do it all the time, as it simplifies a language and makes their vocabulary significantly smaller than the English one. Any two words can be put together really, such as finicky chump, or fastidious scandalmonger. Terms such as this need no technical acceptance as they are just words. However, ever technical term needs a start point - so you heard it here first!

There is a fourth and an ultimate close range load for humane dispatch, but I can't disclose it as it may ruin a friends on-going business plan.
MS

 

[diverdave]

Serious question, from a stalker with no interest in pistols. I know only one person with one, and they have absolutely no reason in ,my opinion, to have one, it has not been used in years. But my question. How does it work, do you carry it all the time, it is in the truck or at home? I guess for RTA call outs it stays safely in the cabinet until called, so that makes sense. The reason i ask is everyone i know is trying to shave grams off kit here and there, to the extent that removing my watch would make more difference than many of the examples discussed. Many of the examples in this thread suggest the pistol is carried whilst out stalking in general or with guests. I have never seen any one carry one, with the exception of a chap on a horse on a fox day, and the whole thing left me very uncomfortable, not the pistol, the whole thing was all a little strange, but lets leave that. How does the whole humane dispatch thing work in a normal stalking situation. It is not a thing i have ever needed or considered, and a follow up shot has done what is required. But my stalking is largely open hill roe and reds and forest edges, so many of the situations discussed really wont happen in my situation. I am just interested in how it works in a real life stalking situation

 

[2130martin]

If you can be arsed theres a video on U tube of a fella shooting a golf ball at 100 yards with a .22

Third attempt in that string with a telescopic sight off the bench....not the best HD set up...

 

[2130martin]

Theres another of a fella shooting a balloon at 1000 yards with a .45 pistol[/QUOTE]

Balloon was burst by the ricochet or fragmentation of bullet......second shot on that string........not good enough for HD...

 

[Bucks&Ducks]

No chance of one in South Wales

 

[sikamalc]

Ok I think this thread is going no where now. We have those that stalk and prefer a shotgun for HD, and those that use a pistol. The end.