Police spot checks

[david1976]

Cant see what the problem is here unless you have something to hide? ie too many rounds or are leaving your guns out.

Point 1 - it would draw attention - why exactly would this make it obvious you are a firearm holder? the police attend thousands of houses throughout the country each day so this is a nonsense straight away.

It's not everyones divine right to possess a firearm and I think its about time that some people on here started to realise that. If you mess your licensing department about whats going to happen to you at renewal time?

 

[gmart122]

If we all allow spot checks to occur unhindered two things will happen:

1) The minority who do prevent access will be ridiculed and assumed guilty.

2) Law will be passed so you then have no option but to let them in. This will be passed because its public consensus that its appropriate. In the same way as if you don't provide Police with a breath specimen, you are assumed to be intoxicated and lose your driving licence. If you don't let them inspect your guns, you lose your licence assumed to be in breach of it (why else wouldn't you let them in).

BASC are there for a reason, quietly conforming has got us nowhere in the past.

 

[Tamus]

If they turned up looking to search my home I would need a reason why. The Police do not make a "friendly" visits (long gone are the days when the local bobbies came cadging for eggs, milk and potatoes round the farms here). All visits from the Police are serious matters and when you are the subject of that serious matter you better take it seriously too. If you take the "why should an innocent man be worried" view, good for you.

I'd ask; why would the Police waste their precious time visiting people they thought were innocent? and... What makes you think they think you are innocent? unless perhaps they've come to bring you very serious news.

Here's what the Citizens advice bureau publishes.

Powers of entry

When can the police enter and search

Police can only enter premises without a warrant if a serious or dangerous incident has taken place.
Situations in which the police can enter premises without a warrant include when they want to:

• deal with a breach of the peace or prevent it
• enforce an arrest warrant
• arrest a person in connection with certain offences
• recapture someone who has escaped from custody
• save life or prevent serious damage to property.

Apart from when they are preventing serious injury to life or property, the police must have reasonable grounds for believing that the person they are looking for is on the premises.
If the police do arrest you, they can also enter and search any premises where you were during or immediately before the arrest. They can search only for evidence relating to the offence for which you have been arrested, and they must have reasonable grounds for believing there is evidence there. They can also search any premises occupied by someone who is under arrest for certain serious offences. Again, the police officer who carries out the search must have reasonable grounds for suspecting that there is evidence on the premises relating to the offence or a similar offence.
In other circumstances, the police must have a search warrant before they can enter the premises. They should enter property at a reasonable hour unless this would frustrate their search. When the occupier is present, the police must ask for permission to search the property – again, unless it would frustrate the search to do this.
When they are carrying out a search police officers must:

• identify themselves and - if they are not in uniform - show their warrant card, and
• explain why they want to search, the rights of the occupier and whether the search is made with a search warrant or not.

If the police have a warrant, they can force entry if:

• the occupier has refused entry, or
• it is impossible to communicate with the occupier, or
• the occupier is absent, or
• the premises are unoccupied, or
• they have reasonable grounds for believing that if they do not force entry it would hinder the search, or someone would be placed in danger

• .

 

[david1976]

Situations in which the police can enter premises without a warrant include "when they want to"

They could have worded that a bit better

 

[Pine Marten]

Cant see what the problem is here unless you have something to hide?

Put simply, you don't have a say on what it is that you may need to hide or not. So you're establishing a precedent where you're always expected to submit to inspection or rules without any control. It has far broader implications that firearms legislation.

 

[Wingy]

I am running the danger of getting attacked here, but I will say it: I do not see a problem with this. Can someone explain to me why I should be upset if the police want to satisfy themselves that I am adhering to the terms of my FAC?

By pre arranged appointment by your FLO would not be a problem. But let's run this one - knock at the door, 2 cops in uniform require to check your firearms, certificates etc. you show them in, open up your cabinet. Bump over head, wake up guns & ammo missing. Phone call to local constabulary - oooops must have been a couple of bogus cops.
You laugh but not beyond the realms of imagination
Wingy

 

[Si]

I'm in two minds on this... If my FEO knocked and said "I'm here to check your guns and ammo" I'd probably let him in and put the kettle on, but if they turned up mob handed when the kids are asleep or while we were sat enjoying an evening meal I'd be less than impressed.
I have nothing to hide but there is a matter of principal that needs to be addressed... As usual the police are looking to improve public perception by targeting the law abiding certificate holders.
If it's illegal firearms they're after, then I'm affraid they are looking in the wrong place.


BTW David1976... it is a devine right to own sporting firearms

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Situations in which the police can enter premises without a warrant include "when they want to"

They could have worded that a bit better

What are you talking about ?

 

[david1976]

What are you talking about ?

Read Ogives post above and look at the line of text under the red sentence

 

[timbrayford]

By pre arranged appointment by your FLO would not be a problem. But let's run this one - knock at the door, 2 cops in uniform require to check your firearms, certificates etc. you show them in, open up your cabinet. Bump over head, wake up guns & ammo missing. Phone call to local constabulary - oooops must have been a couple of bogus cops.
You laugh but not beyond the realms of imagination
Wingy

That would be my concern too, but I do not have a problem with the local rural guys turning up if I recognise them. atb Tim

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Read Ogives post above and look at the line of text under the red sentence

 

[bewsher500]

OK so simple question:

Why do they want to check?
Answer seems simple to me as well: on the off chance of catching you doing something you shouldnt, over allowance guns out of cabinet etc etc.

Do they perform spot checks on residential properties for other reasons?
Not that I am aware of.

if not then I am afraid i refuse to be put in a minority open to persecution because someone in the "Super's" office has decided it might be a quick way to get some press coverage on tackling "gun crime"!

 

[Si]

That's a dirty great six inch nail you've just hit on the head there bewsher

 

[204 Ruger]

what a nice and fair bunch
of course i have to be nice at the mo

North Wales Police are excellent mate, you shouldnt have any concerns...Always found them to be brilliant and very quick at responding to variations etc.

 

[big_dog]

Make sure it is the real polic officer & not a bogus one .Get some ID call the station & confirm it ok.

 

[VSS]

Thought about it a bit - being in North Wales I suppose I could theoretically be one of the first to experience these "spot checks" first hand.

I reckon, if the guy I've dealt with before turns up, the same chap who came to clear my land for a friend's .243, who guided me through the FAC application procedure, who inspected my security, who brought me my FAC in person, who gave the go-ahead for my "open" conditions after only 1 year, and who's always been ready to answer my queries over the phone, I'll ask him in for a cuppa and a chat, and if he wants to have a look in the cabinet while he's here then that's fine.
BUT if it's someone I don't know then I won't let them in without "good reason" and ID, and probably a call to the station while they wait on the doorstep. In fact, I think I'd tell them it wasn't convenient, and ask them to make an appointment for another day.

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Thought about it a bit - being in North Wales I suppose I could theoretically be one of the first to experience these "spot checks" first hand.

I reckon, if the guy I've dealt with before turns up, the same chap who came to clear my land for a friend's .243, who guided me through the FAC application procedure, who inspected my security, who brought me my FAC in person, who gave the go-ahead for my "open" conditions after only 1 year, and who's always been ready to answer my queries over the phone, I'll ask him in for a cuppa and a chat, and if he wants to have a look in the cabinet while he's here then that's fine.
BUT if it's someone I don't know then I won't let them in without "good reason" and ID, and probably a call to the station while they wait on the doorstep. In fact, I think I'd tell them it wasn't convenient, and ask them to make an appointment for another day.

A good post and not unlike my way of thinking . . . . . what with serious budget cuts and the like I suspect the friendly local FLO could well become a thing of the past though.

 

[gerarddwatts]

If only they were prepared to put as much time and trouble into catching bad people.......

 

[jay222]

I've just had a variation in north Wales take 5 months, I think they have more pressing priorities than spot checks to be getting on with

 

[Dragunov]

Make sure it is the real polic officer & not a bogus one .Get some ID call the station & confirm it ok.

+1 on that.