Roosting Feral pigeon control with artificial light.

[Conor O'Gorman]

As post #31 then!

@Conor O'Gorman is this something BASC is aware of and can they push for illumination to be added back in as it’s very effective and humane?

I have asked colleagues.

 

[Sinistral]

I have asked colleagues.

#25 has the link to the WCA. I don't believe DEFRA can change GL41/42 to include this without legislative change.
That means an SI or OIC at the least, which will be debated. IMO it's unlikely to happen in this parliament, assuming it gets through.

 

[Freeforester]

Thank you for your enquiry.



Under section 1 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 all wild birds (as defined in section 27 of the 1981 Act), their nests, eggs and young are protected from harm. However, the law also recognises that there are situations where it is legitimate to control birds, their nests and young for certain purposes (listed in section 16(1) of the 1981 Act) under licence.



Feral pigeon is permitted target species under GL41, for the purpose of preventing slips and falls; spread of human disease; and issues with birds nesting and GL42 to prevent serious damage to livestock foodstuffs, crops, fruit and vegetables. You do not need to apply to use these licences, but you must follow their terms and conditions and ensure that your circumstances are covered by a licence before relying on it.



Methods you can use under this licence

You are authorised to use any of the following methods:

• prick eggs
• oil eggs
• destroy eggs and nests
• kill or take by hand
• use targeted falconry
• shoot with any firearm, including ‘semi-automatic weapons’, shotguns or air guns
• trap with a ‘permitted cage trap design’
• take birds whilst not in flight with any hand-held or hand-propelled net

An illuminating device or sighting device for night shooting is not a permitted method for any permitted target species under Defra’s general licences.



If your circumstances are not covered by Defra’s general licences, you must apply for a licence from Natural England. Natural England have launched a pre application screening form which allows potential applicants to describe their situation by answering a few short questions. They will then be advised of the likelihood of obtaining a licence.



For further information on controlling birds, please contact Natural England wildlife licensing via wildlife@naturalengland.org.uk or ring 020 8026 1089.



We hope you find this information useful.



Best wishes



Defra General Licence Customer Service Team

This did not prevent the birds ringers dropping one osprey chick which fell to its death in our local e a few years back.
Still, nobody died, so it's okay, presumably?

Pheasant Beating: the deal here is £50 for a walk with a flag trying to beat pheasants, warm lunch and as many birds as you like to take home included, with no risk to your own FAC; but if you can't beat, Tim....

Nope. I go for maximum yield with minimum effort! Can't beat a walk with a .410 on a moonlit night.

 

[shakey jake]

This did not prevent the birds ringers dropping one osprey chick which fell to its death in our local e a few years back.
Still, nobody died, so it's okay, presumably?

Pheasant Beating: the deal here is £50 for a walk with a flag trying to beat pheasants, warm lunch and as many birds as you like to take home included, with no risk to your own FAC; but if you can't beat, Tim....

Whats any of that got to do with feral pigeon control?

 

[Freeforester]

The thread had widened to mention wild birds - my comment was to the aspects of the legislation as discussed which pertains to protection of both, or not, depending on your understanding of that.

 

[VSS]

Pheasant Beating: the deal here is £50 for a walk with a flag trying to beat pheasants, warm lunch and as many birds as you like to take home included, with no risk to your own FAC; but if you can't beat, Tim....

No risk to my FAC.
My land, my sporting rights, my pheasants.

 

[25 Sharps]

#25 has the link to the WCA. I don't believe DEFRA can change GL41/42 to include this without legislative change.
That means an SI or OIC at the least, which will be debated. IMO it's unlikely to happen in this parliament, assuming it gets through.

Why not? They allow the use of section 1 shotguns and illumination was allowed very recently. The whole point is the licence provides exemptions to allow people to work in a way that would otherwise break the Act.

 

[Sinistral]

Why not? They allow the use of section 1 shotguns and illumination was allowed very recently. The whole point is the licence provides exemptions to allow people to work in a way that would otherwise break the Act.

I'm not going to repeat my previous posts.
IMO ii(c) on GL04 was unlawful, and was rescinded in 2019 when Wild Justice & their lawyers got serious.
This isn't an omission so is not coming back.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5cc2390940f0b64031cfa6f1/gl04-birds-prevent-damage-disease-licence.PDF

 

[25 Sharps]

I'm not going to repeat my previous posts.
IMO ii(c) on GL04 was unlawful, and was rescinded in 2019 when Wild Justice & their lawyers got serious.
This isn't an omission so is not coming back.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5cc2390940f0b64031cfa6f1/gl04-birds-prevent-damage-disease-licence.PDF

Everything permitted on the licence is unlawful the WCA. That’s the point, the licence allows you to carry it out under licence. The same as individual licences that are issued either For species not covered under the GLs or for activities/methods not covered by the GLs.

In other words, the wording made it lawful as long as you operate under the licence.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

In response to queries. The Defra advice is correct in that the Defra general licences do not permit the use of illuminating devices or sightings device for night shooting feral pigeon in England. As per Defra advice you would need to apply to Natural England for an individual licence for those methods and there is a pre application screening form here: Qualtrics Survey | Qualtrics Experience Management This allows potential applicants to describe their situation by answering a few short questions. They will then be advised of the likelihood of obtaining a licence.

If you are a BASC member we can help with the application.

 

[shakey jake]

In response to queries. The Defra advice is correct in that the Defra general licences do not permit the use of illuminating devices or sightings device for night shooting feral pigeon in England. As per Defra advice you would need to apply to Natural England for an individual licence for those methods and there is a pre application screening form here: Qualtrics Survey | Qualtrics Experience Management This allows potential applicants to describe their situation by answering a few short questions. They will then be advised of the likelihood of obtaining a licence.

If you are a BASC member we can help with the application.

How long have basc been aware of the change?

 

[sako751sg]

How long have basc been aware of the change?

I would have thought things like these are what the shooting organisations would be trying to get amended.
Lamping ferals must be one of the most common pest control methods and for this to have been sided to actually have to give details of the circumstances to see if you are valid for a certificate is hard to believe.

 

[shakey jake]

I would have thought things like these are what the shooting organisations would be trying to get amended.
Lamping ferals must be one of the most common pest control methods and for this to have been sided to actually have to give details of the circumstances to see if you are valid for a certificate is hard to believe.

Very shocking that the first info i heard on it was on here, not in a shooting or pest control publication

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

How long have basc been aware of the change?

Since 2019 amongst many changes and complexities that year and we have been advising members on applications for individual licenses where required for bird pest control.

 

[Apthorpe]

Possibly taking a different angle. Illunination and types of scope don't need to be listed by the GLs as methods for killing the birds for the simple reason that you can't kill a bird with a light, thermal or scope. Any bird you kill while using one would be shot with a firearm and thus covered. Discuss?

 

[shakey jake]

Since 2019 amongst many changes and complexities that year and we have been advising members on applications for individual licenses where required for bird pest control.

Did basc make any sort of annoncement regarding this?
Im not trying to have a pop at basc, just interested

 

[sako751sg]

Very shocking that the first info i heard on it was on here, not in a shooting or pest control publication

Couldn't agree more.
As I said,it's a huge contributer to dealing with ferals and for that just to be accepted without any shouting from those in a position to do so is very strange.
No much wonder things are getting undermined daily when those who see these things happening but haven't the common sense to highlight and fight it.

 

[mr smith]

In response to queries. The Defra advice is correct in that the Defra general licences do not permit the use of illuminating devices or sightings device for night shooting feral pigeon in England. As per Defra advice you would need to apply to Natural England for an individual licence for those methods and there is a pre application screening form here: Qualtrics Survey | Qualtrics Experience Management This allows potential applicants to describe their situation by answering a few short questions. They will then be advised of the likelihood of obtaining a licence.

If you are a BASC member we can help with the application.

What's the situation for those of us north of the border?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Did basc make any sort of annoncement regarding this?
Im not trying to have a pop at basc, just interested

I don't recall any specific announcement on this - nor can I find anything on this forum discussing it in 2019 or since. There were detailed FAQs back then and I would imagine covered in those. The main advice for all countries year on year for general licences has been to provide tables with species vs reason as a snapshot for people to then check the relevant general licences for the detail and contact BASC for anything specific.

And given this thread I think merit in covering the need for individual licence for certain methods involving illuminating devices etc for feral pigeon in latest FAQs here for England:

England

All the latest news and advice concerning general licences, in England, and how they affect you.

basc.org.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

What's the situation for those of us north of the border?

The relevant general licence in Scotland for feral pigeon is this:

General licence for birds - GL03/2024 - To kill or take certain birds for the preservation of public health, public safety and preventing the spread of disease

General licence for birds - GL03/2024 - To kill or take certain birds for the preservation of public health, public safety and preventing the spread of disease

www.nature.scot

I don't see any reference to permitting illuminating devices etc so if that is a control method you need to carry out best to contact NatureScot about an individual licence application and/or if you are a BASC member to contact us for advice.