RTA Dispatch

[kal]

I was about 10 mins from my house when I came across a RTA.
A Roe Buck had gone under a motor resulting in 2 back legs broken.
Now, if I had been coming back from the shooting club I would have had my .22 LR rifle and my .22 LR LB Pistol.
Seeing how distressed the animal was what would the legality of using either firearm on a public highway for humane dispatch.

The animal had been down for about 15 mins allready and must have had internal injuries, dieing soon after.

 

[Jon P]

Hi Kal
Be very careful, I have had this discussion with my local firearm licence officer, I was informed to contact the police first to obtain a log number prior to any action being taken, I am in a slightly different position as all my firearms are open for any species including humane slaughtered of domesticated animal, I also have a walther pp .32 on my ticket as a humane killer so I may have less hassle for using a firearm outside of my licence conditions, however there still the issue of discharging a firearm in a public place, so far I have had no issues for any cattle or horses I have had to dispatch. So my advice would be contact the police first, there may even be a firearms officer in area who can do the job, seeing an animal in distress is not good, but loosing your ticket will also be heart breaking too.

 

[2130martin]

I would hope that common sense would prevail,suffering animal needs despatching as cleanly and quick as possible,I personally would get it done and answer the questions after.....That is what I would do,I am not saying it is legally correct.

BTW,I wouldnt do it without authority for a domestic/farm animal,only wild animals.

 

[FGYT]

I was about 10 mins from my house when I came across a RTA.
A Roe Buck had gone under a motor resulting in 2 back legs broken.
Now, if I had been coming back from the shooting club I would have had my .22 LR rifle and my .22 LR LB Pistol.
Seeing how distressed the animal was what would the legality of using either firearm on a public highway for humane dispatch.

The animal had been down for about 15 mins all ready and must have had internal injuries, dieing soon after.

are your fire arms Conditioned at least for hunting LBP i doubt it ( or humane dispatch )

if so do you have an open ticket

for club target shooting guns only i wouldn't at all your only conditioned to shoot on approved Ranges

and for mine No as Im a closed ticket so can only shoot on cleared land the highway isnt cleared

 

[Monkey Spanker]

I was about 10 mins from my house when I came across a RTA.
A Roe Buck had gone under a motor resulting in 2 back legs broken.
Now, if I had been coming back from the shooting club I would have had my .22 LR rifle and my .22 LR LB Pistol.
Seeing how distressed the animal was what would the legality of using either firearm on a public highway for humane dispatch.

The animal had been down for about 15 mins allready and must have had internal injuries, dieing soon after.

It's a bit of a minefield without authority from the police! Even then, you need your own insurance to cover you. You also need to have humane dispatch on your FAC. You only need to inconvenience or distress another road user and you are suddenly faced with a charge of discharging a firearm illegally within 50ft of the centre of a highway without good reason/authority/insurance. Bye bye FAC!!!
You could however just use a blunt instrument and you'd be fine!
Best to call the police and some idiot like me will get out of bed and come and do exactly what you could have done much earlier.
MS

 

[Jon P]

[
BTW,I wouldnt do it without authority for a domestic/farm animal,only wild animals./QUOTE

Hi 2130Martin

i mentioned that I have domestic animals on my ticket as I was referring to cattle and horses that I have dispatched in public places, hope this clears up any confusion as to stop posts saying I would be outside of my licence conditions by dispatching them.

cheers

Jon

 

[2130martin]

[
BTW,I wouldnt do it without authority for a domestic/farm animal,only wild animals./QUOTE

Hi 2130Martin

i mentioned that I have domestic animals on my ticket as I was referring to cattle and horses that I have dispatched in public places, hope this clears up any confusion as to stop posts saying I would be outside of my licence conditions by dispatching them.

cheers

Jon

I wasnt referring to you,i was more thinking of the farmers prize bull stood in the road with an apparent broken leg,it wouldnt be my call to repair or shoot!!!!

 

[BeardyWierdy]

Well technically under the prevention of cruelty to animals act you could have shot it, but I don't know if I'd like to put this to the test as not all police persons will be aware of this slightly unusual aspect of the law. You can justify why you have the firearm, and why you took that action, but if there are passers by you're potentially in a world of hurt!

BTW the actual law states you may not discharge a firearm within 50(whatevers) without good reason - which would seem to be covered under the "preventing an animal from undue suffering".

However, the Law's an ass... so whatever the legalities actually are you'd be better off just hanging about until the police give the OK.

 

[Alantoo]

From :- Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v13

Highways Act 1980

1. 22.31 Under section 161 of the Highways Act 1980, it is an offence for any person, without lawfulauthority or excuse, to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of any highway, if in consequence any user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. For thesepurposes a carriageway means a highway (other than a cycle track) over which the publichave a right of way for the passage of vehicles.
   
   
   
   

Mercy Killing
14.12 Section 6 (4) of the Deer Act 1991, as amended by the Regulatory Reform (Deer) (Englandand Wales) Order 2007, enables a person to use “any reasonable means” to kill any deerif he reasonably believes that the deer has been so seriously injured (otherwise than by hisunlawful act), or in such a condition that he reasonably believes killing it to be an act ofmercy. ‘Any reasonable means’ is defined in s6 (4A) as, “any method of killing a deer thatcan reasonably be expected to result in rapid loss of consciousness and death and whichis appropriate in all the circumstances (including in particular what the deer is doing, itssize, its distance from the closest position safely attainable by the person attempting to kill the deer and its position in relation to vegetative cover). Note that where this defenceapplies, a person will not be guilty of an offence under section 4(1) or 4(2).




Alan

 

[McKenzie]

The BDS deerbytes just arrived in my in box offering a course in Humane Animal Dispatch;I hadn't been aware that Whitetail deer were at such risk on our roads!

 

[palmer_mike]

The BDS deerbytes just arrived in my in box offering a course in Humane Animal Dispatch;I hadn't been aware that Whitetail deer were at such risk on our roads!


View attachment 70062

Not just the deer at risk, with the lunatic in the picture on the wrong side of the road! LoL

 

[willie_gunn]

It's not as though the BDS don't have members who could have supplied them with a suitable picture either

 

[wag]

From :- Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v13

Highways Act 1980

2. 22.31 Under section 161 of the Highways Act 1980, it is an offence for any person, without lawfulauthority or excuse, to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of any highway, if in consequence any user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. For thesepurposes a carriageway means a highway (other than a cycle track) over which the publichave a right of way for the passage of vehicles.
   
   
   

Mercy Killing
14.12 Section 6 (4) of the Deer Act 1991, as amended by the Regulatory Reform (Deer) (Englandand Wales) Order 2007, enables a person to use “any reasonable means” to kill any deerif he reasonably believes that the deer has been so seriously injured (otherwise than by hisunlawful act), or in such a condition that he reasonably believes killing it to be an act ofmercy. ‘Any reasonable means’ is defined in s6 (4A) as, “any method of killing a deer thatcan reasonably be expected to result in rapid loss of consciousness and death and whichis appropriate in all the circumstances (including in particular what the deer is doing, itssize, its distance from the closest position safely attainable by the person attempting to kill the deer and its position in relation to vegetative cover). Note that where this defenceapplies, a person will not be guilty of an offence under section 4(1) or 4(2).




Alan

Insurance. Your not covered by BASC unless you have additional cover. ( thats free I might add)

 

[old man]

Mercy Killing
14.12 Section 6 (4) of the Deer Act 1991, as amended by the Regulatory Reform (Deer) (England and Wales) Order 2007, enables a person to use “any reasonable means” to kill any deer if he reasonably believes that the deer has been so seriously injured (otherwise than by his unlawful act), or in such a condition that he reasonably believes killing it to be an act of mercy. ‘Any reasonable means’ is defined in s6 (4A) as, “any method of killing a deer that can reasonably be expected to result in rapid loss of consciousness and death and which is appropriate in all the circumstances (including in particular what the deer is doing, its size, its distance from the closest position safely attainable by the person attempting to kill the deer and its position in relation to vegetative cover). Note that where this defence applies, a person will not be guilty of an offence under section 4(1) or 4(2).

I would assume that a fair amount of sleep could be lost while preparing to defend this action in the current climate?

"In extremis only" ?

 

[Pedro]

I have a strange feeling that this and similar issues have been dealt with before on this forum with one or two threads running to multiple pages.

In practice and in normal conditions, I would expect that the police would not take any action on someone putting an animal out of it's misery. Despite common sense hopefully prevailing, the adverse publicity would be a factor. The CPS may also feel, if it got that far that it wouldn't be in the public interest to prosecute. However, there's no guarantees on that!

One way to avoid breaking any conditions on your firearm cert would be to use a shotgun. Or a knife (see other threads on that too, some time ago as I recall).

But there's a world of difference between dispatching a poor roe deer on a back country road that's hardly used when the place is deserted and whipping out your "sniper rifle" on a busy A-road on the way back from a stalking trip, in bloody camo gear to slot a large species deer whilst a good proportion of the general public look on in horror and terror.

I think my way of dealing with something I might come across like this is to call the police and let them decide what's to be done.

 

[kes]

I have a strange feeling that this and similar issues have been dealt with before on this forum with one or two threads running to multiple pages.

In practice and in normal conditions, I would expect that the police would not take any action on someone putting an animal out of it's misery. Despite common sense hopefully prevailing, the adverse publicity would be a factor. The CPS may also feel, if it got that far that it wouldn't be in the public interest to prosecute. However, there's no guarantees on that!

One way to avoid breaking any conditions on your firearm cert would be to use a shotgun. Or a knife (see other threads on that too, some time ago as I recall).

But there's a world of difference between dispatching a poor roe deer on a back country road that's hardly used when the place is deserted and whipping out your "sniper rifle" on a busy A-road on the way back from a stalking trip, in bloody camo gear to slot a large species deer whilst a good proportion of the general public look on in horror and terror.

I think my way of dealing with something I might come across like this is to call the police and let them decide what's to be done.

This (above) is true and good advice, but its a sad reflection that those who act to end suffering should face the probability of loss of their firearms. The note on the deer acts above I suspect does not cover anyone for non-deer or beyond land ownership etc.
Many such situations are complex but It would perhaps be better if, on the off chance a gunowner has a gun on the scene that 'Humane Despatch', (very carefully defined in advice, given seperately) would provide a clear opportunity to help without the prospect of needing to defend oneself. As with AOLQ perhaps this should become an automatic addition but only upon 'opening' a cert.
Until then I would reluctantly walk away and have done. I wonder if, in such situations and if you could safely put an end to an animals suffering you are not 'technically' in breach of the animal cruelty act 2006 for allowing the suffering to continue?
I have watched smaller animals die, whilst clearly very far gone, with female motorists screaming for someone to take the (near dead) animal to the vet - because they had injured it.

 

[Alantoo]

I wonder if, in such situations and if you could safely put an end to an animals suffering you are not 'technically' in breach of the animal cruelty act 2006 for allowing the suffering to continue?

I could not find this when I was looking, can you quote the relevant paragraph?

Alan

 

[8x57]

A fellow rifle club member was travelling to the range a few weeks ago when he came across a police officer attending a road traffic collision involving a car and a fair sized boar. The car was quite badly damaged and a medium sized boar was kicking on the ground and trying to get away. The shooter had a .308w rifle in the car but having only recently been granted his FAC he wasn't sure of the legalities or what to do, apparently the officer attending wasn't much wiser either. So being unsure he didn't volunteer his services but carried on to the range.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

I was about 10 mins from my house when I came across a RTA.
A Roe Buck had gone under a motor resulting in 2 back legs broken.
Now, if I had been coming back from the shooting club I would have had my .22 LR rifle and my .22 LR LB Pistol.
Seeing how distressed the animal was what would the legality of using either firearm on a public highway for humane dispatch.

The animal had been down for about 15 mins allready and must have had internal injuries, dieing soon after.

And what is wrong with using a knife? It takes seconds, and you avoid the possible fall-out from using un-authorised firearms.
Old blanket over the head, cut the throat, job done. Any distressed members of the public nearby may not even notice.

 

[Alantoo]

The shooter had a .308w rifle in the car but having only recently been granted his FAC he wasn't sure of the legalities or what to do, apparently the officer attending wasn't much wiser either. So being unsure he didn't volunteer his services but carried on to the range.

This thread, and the others like it, would indicate that even seasoned officers and FAC holders are unsure of the legalities!

Still haven't managed to find the relevant paragraph in the Animal Cruelty Act....Anybody?

Alan