And to stay in power.
Scot Independence poll - would you leave?
- Thread starter HonestJohn
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i find it incredulous. You have a once in a generation referendum but didnt get your own way so boo hoo its not fair we want another 347 referendums until everyone is bored and we might get a result that our single policy party is after.... WTF will they do if they didn't have that one policy to chase anymore?
I am also very surprised that the tories have not pushed to get rid... if Scotland cannot send MP's to London then labour has almost no chance of ever winning another election!
comparing brexit vote and saying that Scotland voted to stay is tosh! Scotland didn't vote, the UK did! Scotland was not a member of the EU, the UK was.
I also hope if Scotland got independence then we do not make the same mistake that we made with Ireland and allowed them to have UK passports or be able to just pop down and work.... they should have the same rights as any other European nation state after independence.
there was a vote and the majority wanted to stay... get on with it. you and we have enough real problems to deal with
I am also very surprised that the tories have not pushed to get rid... if Scotland cannot send MP's to London then labour has almost no chance of ever winning another election!
comparing brexit vote and saying that Scotland voted to stay is tosh! Scotland didn't vote, the UK did! Scotland was not a member of the EU, the UK was.
I also hope if Scotland got independence then we do not make the same mistake that we made with Ireland and allowed them to have UK passports or be able to just pop down and work.... they should have the same rights as any other European nation state after independence.
there was a vote and the majority wanted to stay... get on with it. you and we have enough real problems to deal with
The situation is somewhat different. We have a common travel area with Ireland because of the special circumstances there which do not apply to Scotland. On independence Ireland had effectively voted to partition itself, but with Northern Ireland containing a large Catholic community which to generalise inaccurately was essentially Irish, and a larger Protestant community which also generalising inaccurately could be identified as mainly Scots-Irish. In an attempt to avoid civil strife in the North, the common travel area and dual nationality arrangements were put in place. Scotland doesn't really have that diversity of communities, so there is argument for and no point in creating a set of rather difficult exceptions to accommodate non-existent communities.
Aside from that the common travel area has created so much political and economic difficulty recently, I doubt anybody is going to think that's a solution to anyone's problem.
How many times have the EU said no to an independent Scotland joining now? The EU took on too many nations that couldn't afford the project and they aint about to make their situation worse are they now?
I just hope the voters get the hard truth about the Scottish economy and its link to the BOE , Sterling etc . Independant Scotland is as the name implies No sterling , no BOE , NHS
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
This is 1 of the atitudes i find quite hard to understand.
I
But considering we have all (UK) just been well and truely shafted with the brexit negotiations and 1 of the main things they had to barter with was the NI/Wire border and thats how it ended up the shambles it is.
Why did more down south not clamour for a hard border on the border and be done with it, give the EU no room to negotitate over it do ur not held over a barrel by them.
The other thing is many often moan about 40 odd SNP MP's sitting at westminster, but infact the more of those numpties down theyre the less effect scotland has on wesminster.
In the past they would only vote on non devolved topics and not enough of them to actually do anything apart from make a noise.
When scotland was sending down 40+ Liebour MP's every 5 years for decades make mean scottish MP's having far bigger say and more influence over westminster yet no one moans about that.
If they want to go let them but it needs to be a once only in or out can't keep having this every few years under the lunatic in holyrood. I was told they don't have the financial reserves required to join anyway
If you look at the reiving families you could be more than 50 per cent English anyway.Dumfriesshire,I’m only 20 miles off being English if the truth be told
Thing is once Scotland does become independent, the SNP dissolves as it is purely formed to attain independence.
So it then becomes on the other parties to step up to the mark and make a better country.
Who knows which party the SNP voters would join?
I think it would probably be a hung Parliament - Labour/Lib Dems/Greens as the Tories have very little standing.
So it then becomes on the other parties to step up to the mark and make a better country.
Who knows which party the SNP voters would join?
I think it would probably be a hung Parliament - Labour/Lib Dems/Greens as the Tories have very little standing.
It's just a problem that looks as though it won't ever go away. The margins are that tight and sway one way or another depending on what the British government are up to. But it shouldn't. If the politics of the UK are at odds with what Scotland thinks it wants, then that's always a temporary issue.
I think it's like suicide (in more ways than one). A permanent fix to a temporary problem.
I think it's like suicide (in more ways than one). A permanent fix to a temporary problem.
I find the concept of independence ruled by Europe a farce. Being English I think we should give Sturgeon her way. Would save buckets of money, cant see it been the eutopia shes selling once they can the oil to keep the anti nuc and greenies happy!
Im only miles from the border so the smuggling opportunities would increase!
Im only miles from the border so the smuggling opportunities would increase!
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Do the tories not have the 2nd most seats at holyrood?
If not this time they were the last election, labour has just imploded esp since the referendum.
I'm also sure pre 70's they're was more tory scottish MP's than other parties, really only sinc the 70's and esp since Thatchter has labour become the larger political party in scotlalnd until firly recently.
Strictly speaking u would hope the SNP would cease to exixt if scotland ever becam e independent, but there is no way so many folk would give up the power they now have.
Sadly i think it is the only possible way to get rid of the nasty party, but even that won't work.
Like bloody cockroaches
I don't believe for a second that would happen, too many snouts in the trough !
Like you I live 20 miles from the border. If Scotland becomes independent I am moving 21 miles south !Dumfriesshire,I’m only 20 miles off being English if the truth be told
I certainly am as my dads side is all from the bewcastle side and my mums is tweedsmuirIf you look at the reiving families you could be more than 50 per cent English anyway.
I think it's easy for us to make the mistake of thinking that Scottish nationalists have any interest in aligning their policies with the existing reality. In politics, we're used to seeing what the reality is, then looking for policies which might plausibly address the challenges. Scottish nationalism operates differently. They already know what the policy is and there is nothing in the current, or any possible alternate situation which is capable of altering that policy. They're not trying to create a successful society. All they're trying to do is create independence. Everything else is subsidiary to that.
It doesn't matter if it's economically deranged, if public services would collapse, if it would seriously harm Scots, even if famine would ensue, none of that matters because their freedom is more important to them. There's nothing really wrong with that if that's what they choose.
The only thing that's wrong is to refuse to engage properly in a coherent analysis and debate around those choices. That is the great sin of the SNP and their supporters. Ask a SNP supporter how they would deal with any of the major challenges any independent country would face, and the reply will either be just abuse or some completely unrealistic nonsense.
There's no way the SNP would disband after independence. That's not what happens. What typically happens is that the SNP type party loses its alleged interest in democracy and freedom altogether, shuts down civil society and independent media, and it becomes a one-party state for decades. Sounds far-fetched? How else do they deal with the fact that their policies are a disastrous failure and keep their supporters when there's nobody else to blame and no paramount policy for which people are prepared to overlook all their failures and corruption ?
It doesn't matter if it's economically deranged, if public services would collapse, if it would seriously harm Scots, even if famine would ensue, none of that matters because their freedom is more important to them. There's nothing really wrong with that if that's what they choose.
The only thing that's wrong is to refuse to engage properly in a coherent analysis and debate around those choices. That is the great sin of the SNP and their supporters. Ask a SNP supporter how they would deal with any of the major challenges any independent country would face, and the reply will either be just abuse or some completely unrealistic nonsense.
There's no way the SNP would disband after independence. That's not what happens. What typically happens is that the SNP type party loses its alleged interest in democracy and freedom altogether, shuts down civil society and independent media, and it becomes a one-party state for decades. Sounds far-fetched? How else do they deal with the fact that their policies are a disastrous failure and keep their supporters when there's nobody else to blame and no paramount policy for which people are prepared to overlook all their failures and corruption ?
reiver
Well-Known Member
A
Ah so you look over to cumbria and the promised land as they call it !Dumfriesshire,I’m only 20 miles off being English if the truth be told
The SNP only exist to gain independence.
Once that happens they need to change both their name and their main objectives.
A fair amount of people joined the Party from Labour and the Tories. Whether they would return on mass to these Parties would need to be seen - hence my thoughts are it would be a hung Parliament
Know upTweed very well lived there for a few years. When "The Duke" kept The Crook Inn.I certainly am as my dads side is all from the bewcastle side and my mums is tweedsmuir
parlanaich
Well-Known Member
Lets keep it simple
IF IT WERE A RACEHORSE WITH FORM LIKE THIS 000000000000000 (that's one duck egg for every year of SNP failure) would you back it?
NO WAY, and I'm a PROUD SCOT!
IF IT WERE A RACEHORSE WITH FORM LIKE THIS 000000000000000 (that's one duck egg for every year of SNP failure) would you back it?
NO WAY, and I'm a PROUD SCOT!
We also need to wonder about Labour, Lib Dems and the Tories in an independent Scotland. What would they do? Their current policies and identities are essentially drawn from England. I would imagine that would be politically unacceptable from all angles.
The biggest problem of course is for the electorate, which as a whole (i.e. not only Scot Nats) has a very deep-seated hostility to any source of wealth and is religiously attached to subsidised welfarism and social democracy which they're not prepared to pay for themselves. There will be a very bitter pill. Perhaps it would do them some good to collectively grow up and think about how to be solvent.
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