Stalking Show - Head Shooting discussion

[HonestJohn]

Whilst Game Dealers handle and process venison, deer are not “Game”.
Wild deer carcasses belong to the landowner not DEFRA. A landowner can either take the carcass, dispose of the carcass or leave it to decompose in situ.
If there’s no DEFRA appetite for Community Larders I doubt there’ll be any appetite for Community Incineration. I’m not aware of any DEFRA subsidised community cost sharing schemes - anyone?
If a sustainable supply chain doesn’t get sorted the stark reality in the face of increasing deer numbers is that a lot of deer will be shot to waste.

Shoot 100-200 reds and have to deal with the extraction and putting into a GD etc, for say £0.75 on average per kg before tax.

Hell, it would be bliss just to be able to leave them for the raptors.

Give me my old £3/kg, different tune

 

[Mungo]

Hell, it would be bliss just to be able to leave them for the raptors.

What’s stopping you?

 

[Tim.243]

Shoot 100-200 reds and have to deal with the extraction and putting into a GD etc, for say £0.75 on average per kg before tax.

Hell, it would be bliss just to be able to leave them for the raptors.

Give me my old £3/kg, different tune

Please stay in Scotland and leave the much better prices to us in the S/East

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Farmed venison and wild venison are two very different products in the marketplace, as I'm sure you well know.

So you’re telling me you don’t farm them in your park? They live behind the fence so therefore if they live behind the fence, they’re not wild. They’re kept.

 

[VSS]

So you’re telling me you don’t farm them in your park? They live behind the fence so therefore if they live behind the fence, they’re not wild. They’re kept.

Yes, I am telling you I don't farm them.
Park deer are not farmed. It's a completely different method of management. They are managed in exactly the same way as wild deer, and must be killed by stalking in order to be recognised as such.
But you knew all that already.
I also shoot quite a lot of wild deer.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Shoot 100-200 reds and have to deal with the extraction and putting into a GD etc, for say £0.75 on average per kg before tax.

Hell, it would be bliss just to be able to leave them for the raptors.

Give me my old £3/kg, different tune

Exactly that!

75p/kg it’s not even worth swinging the left leg out of the duvet for, unless my arse was snapping at my pants for hunger!

 

[308rws]

In the big scheme of things all that matters is that deer are killed humanely.

 

[HonestJohn]

What’s stopping you?

Not permitted by landowner

 

[devon deer stalker]

I'll just leave this for the head shooters, who think they have missed, found in the Teign Valley Devon recently with its lower jaw blown off.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I'll just leave this for the head shooters, who think they have missed, found in the Teign Valley Devon recently with its lower jaw blown off.
View attachment 473102

Yep, ladies and gents, that is the sad reality of it!

 

[wellyboot]

Farm them then and get them processed in a slaughterhouse very simple way around that!

This is absolutely not a simple process...

3 legal classifications of deer in the UK - wild park and farmed....

park.and farmed are defintely not the same thing and you cannot take farmed deer to a game dealer...thats illegal.

Trying to find an abbatoir with the correct WATOK units and approval for killing deer and the correct handling facilities, lairage etc is next to impossible. I know of 2 currently running...one is private nd do not do any contract killing, the other not.

Getting FSA approval for killing farmed deer is also equally tricky and hugely expensive as a small abattoir... you can transport the carcas and organs within a set time period to a legitimate abbatoir for the OV to inspect but that too is tricky and logistics are usually the problem...

It's far simpler to set up a park and kill within the normal wild deer seasons with a free bullet.

 

[wellyboot]

For some of us, shooting to waste is not allowed as part of night license conditions set by NE...

 

[Klenchblaize]

Whilst Game Dealers handle and process venison, deer are not “Game”.
Wild deer carcasses belong to the landowner not DEFRA. A landowner can either take the carcass, dispose of the carcass or leave it to decompose in situ.
If there’s no DEFRA appetite for Community Larders I doubt there’ll be any appetite for Community Incineration. I’m not aware of any DEFRA subsidised community cost sharing schemes - anyone?
If a sustainable supply chain doesn’t get sorted the stark reality in the face of increasing deer numbers is that a lot of deer will be shot to waste.

I'm not disputing the above but DEFRA were tsked with review of the Deer Management Consultation paper so reasonable to assume they understand the implications of acting meaningfully on the findings.

Perhaps their seeming lack of appetite for Government supported Community incineration arrangements will be reconsidered when there's a Public outcry at stinking deer carcases littering the countryside.

K

 

[Mr. Gain]

Head-shooting deer because it is the only way for a stalker to get them into the food chain is understandable.

However, it does nothing to mitigate the necessity of getting close enough to put the shot where it needs to be for the shooter's proven level of accuracy (and I would recommend quadrupling any "range" group size to account for potential error in the field: a "flier" in a target is a disappointment: a "flier" in a deer is hours, possibly days, of distress), or the necessity of watching and waiting long enough to understand how the deer is moving and how predictable the presentation is.

This goes for all shots, but no bad shot is as bad as a face shot: it creates the least likely scenario for a successful follow up, and mortality will be slower than with any other wound - killing through starvation or infection.

 

[Brad93]

I disagree with that first bit - my 22 is far more difficult to shoot, especially off sticks because of the lack of weight, than either of my deer rifles. If you can head shoot a rabbit, you can head shoot a deer. An inch at 100 yards is an inch at 100 regardless what rifle it comes out of. Thats more than precise enough providing you do your bit. Thats the issue we will face when lead ban comes in. I enjoy ringing steel out to 600+ yards. Its trigger time, its practising. I won't be doing that at £1.50 a bullet!

I've never had a head shot deer get away from me. Not to say it can't happen but I've never had it. I have lost chest shot deer. The shots have been good, the deer has been mobile enough to get in to the sitka. If everything else is right and the headshot is on, that's what I'm gonna take. If it ain't right, hilar shot

I concur

 

[hendrix's rifle]

I'll just leave this for the head shooters, who think they have missed, found in the Teign Valley Devon recently with its lower jaw blown off.
View attachment 473102

That's the point - chest shot deer are as capable of running. How many legs have been blown off and not recovered? How many neck shots have gone wrong?

You still have a mobile deer thats going to suffer.

Its sad, there's no getting around that but there is risk with any shot and thats why you do a thorough check/follow up and get a dog on the trail.

 

[HonestJohn]

That's the point - chest shot deer are as capable of running. How many legs have been blown off and not recovered? How many neck shots have gone wrong?

You still have a mobile deer thats going to suffer.

Its sad, there's no getting around that but there is risk with any shot and thats why you do a thorough check/follow up and get a dog on the trail.

You’re right

I have to say, a runner body shot deer leaves more sign and for a longer tracking distance than one with a jaw wound; so the chances of recovering or catching up with a body shot (chest / neck) are higher. It’s also a lot more visible that you actually didn’t miss, ie. More chances of locating ‘some’ sign of a hit

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Head-shooting deer because it is the only way for a stalker to get them into the food chain is understandable.

However, it does nothing to mitigate the necessity of getting close enough to put the shot where it needs to be for the shooter's proven level of accuracy (and I would recommend quadrupling any "range" group size to account for potential error in the field: a "flier" in a target is a disappointment: a "flier" in a deer is hours, possibly days, of distress), or the necessity of watching and waiting long enough to understand how the deer is moving and how predictable the presentation is.

This goes for all shots, but no bad shot is as bad as a face shot: it creates the least likely scenario for a successful follow up, and mortality will be slower than with any other wound - killing through starvation or infection.

That stands to reason - if you can't shoot with the level of accuracy + precision repeatedly, don't. Dead simple...

No doubt now the argument will be 'well its all well and good shooting from a bench blahdy blah' but I for one do load testing + paper/gongs with only the kit I stalk with. There would be little point otherwise if my rifles shooting an inch, that's an inch in field conditions, not seated on a bench waiting for all things perfect.

Truth be told, it doesn't bother me much where other people shoot deer. I have a bit of faith in my kit and I put enough rounds down range to know if I'm positive the shots on, its within my capability. What other people do is on them and they can reap the consequences when it goes wrong if they shouldn't be doing it

 

[Mungo]

Not permitted by landowner

Ah. Unfortunate.

I think there’s a very good case for shooting to waste in many places.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

You’re right

I have to say, a runner body shot deer leaves more sign and for a longer tracking distance than one with a jaw wound; so the chances of recovering or catching up with a body shot (chest / neck) are higher. It’s also a lot more visible that you actually didn’t miss, ie. More chances of locating ‘some’ sign of a hit

How far are have you gone with a dog with a jaw shot deer?