Steel shot and forcing cones?
- Thread starter Smellydog
- Start date
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if it's important.
I doubt I will ever be satisfied with leaving plastic pollution around...
My local guy doesn't stock eley and no one seems to know what the residue from their wads is.
All that said. I would like to know what if any is the roll of the forcing cone with steel shot???
Yes thats fair point SD - my pal does not in his gunshop - so i have to get mine from Derby - great shop in fairness
I asked one of the directors at Eley and he said they are just natural mineral salts - and bio mass - NO micro plastics
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Mineral salts are a; caustic and b; definitely need something to, if indeed your chap isn't talking out of his arse, need something to bind them together.
Do make sure you clean your barrels well mate.
Never heard anything like it, next thing it'll be you can get them from Holland and Barrett...
bio-wad Gamebore say
Specialist Cleaning Instructions:
Spray a mild, water-based household cleaning product such as glass cleaner down the barrels, leave for a few minutes to allow the breakdown of any stubborn dirt or residue. Next use a wire brush to remove the fouling, followed by a cleaning mop or cloth to wipe away the excess. Dry the barrels thoroughly before applying a gun oil.
As with any type of cartridge; barrels and chokes should be cleaned after each use to avoid buildup of residue.
Guess same applies to eley as water soluble wads also.
Specialist Cleaning Instructions:
Spray a mild, water-based household cleaning product such as glass cleaner down the barrels, leave for a few minutes to allow the breakdown of any stubborn dirt or residue. Next use a wire brush to remove the fouling, followed by a cleaning mop or cloth to wipe away the excess. Dry the barrels thoroughly before applying a gun oil.
As with any type of cartridge; barrels and chokes should be cleaned after each use to avoid buildup of residue.
Guess same applies to eley as water soluble wads also.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Looks like they are hygroscopic.
Stalker-of-the-deer
Well-Known Member
Be boiling the barrels out like ww2
Oh. Bloody great! Let's, why not, Eley, bring back mercuric primers at the same time? I am, just for those that want to know, old enough to remember the faff and all that went with "aquoil" and next day cleaning after the day before's cleaning. Hygroscopic wad residue. Bloody great! And if your gun has even the slightest of pits already this will only make them get worse.
Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Like my muzzleloaders.Be boiling the barrels out like ww2
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Take a look at the recent TGS video from Holts, their Danish expert said that in Denmark they don't recommend using steel with anything tighter than 1/4 choke
Mineral salts are a; caustic and b; definitely need something to, if indeed your chap isn't talking out of his arse, need something to bind them together.
Do make sure you clean your barrels well mate.
Never heard anything like it, next thing it'll be you can get them from Holland and Barrett...
Not found them hard to clean tbh - again if anything - for me - even easier as there are no lead streaks which could be a pain
Result of a lot of hypersteel cartridges through an old shotgun from the early 80s with a tight choke.
This is not my shotgun, I use a good old East German Suhl shotgun, where I have reamed the chokes up to Improved Cylinder and 1/4.
These old Suhl shotguns are so strongly built that they can withstand anything.
Originally pressure tested to 850 Kg, but with open chokes they easily pass the test for the new high-pressure cartriges of 1600 kg if anyone bothers to make them.
Since Denmark is no longer a member of CIP, we no longer need to have proofmarks in our shotguns, even though they all have them from the factories.
I can see that the shotguns sold today in our shops all have proof marks and are mostly tested to 1600 Kg, and have chokes marked "suitable for steel shot", meaning long cone.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
To be honest that is just down to stupidity on the part of the shooter. If you put 2 3/4” 1 1/2oz load baby magnums down the same gun similar would happen.
Older guns are proofed to about 3 Tonnes pressure and shoot 1 1/8 or in some cases 1 1/4 oz of shot.
3” chambered guns were built and proofed to 4 tonne pressure and most modern guns are also built to these sorts of pressures including those that are steel shot proofed.
High Performance steel is loaded to significantly higher pressures.
Standard steel cartridges are loaded to pressures that are suitable for old guns.
??? lead or steel shot are you quoting ?
Well my old Suhl gun has taken 3000+ high performance/hyper performance steel cartriges, after I reamed it up without problems.
So has 1000s of other guns here in Denmark without problems over the last 30 years.
To be honest, I have never heard of a German gun being damaged by steel shot.
On the other hand, one do hear occasionally about older Italian and British lightweight elegant shotguns that don't stand up to hard loaded steel, mostly the closing mecanism starts "waggeling".
In the 80s, a lot of Italian lightweight guns were sold in this country that have very thin barrel thicknesses, those are prone to "trumpet barrel".
For those guns Bismuth/tungsten are the (expensive) solution.
11/4 ounces equals 36 grams of shot, it is the old Danish standard for 12/70 hunting lead shot cartriges, I shoud assume all guns here where made for that as a minimum in the old days. 32grams was for clays back in the lead days.
The 1 1/2oz lead ones are 42gram donsent take any special pressure according to the box (Rottweil Semimagnum), I shot them in Sweden last year, they are much more pleasant to shoot than Hypersteel.
Hypersteel cartriges 12/70 gauge develop 1350 bar, behind 32grams of steelshot and a speed of minimum 470 M/S (1542 fps) 1,5 meters from muzzle and kicks like a mule. The muzzle speed will be close to 500 M/S.
They are way more powerfull than any leadshot cartriges, dont know if they can be CIP approved.
I still don't like steel shot, as I don't think they are as effective as lead cartridges.
There are lots of lead cartridges with (claimed) MV of 1450-1575fps
It’s one of the biggest marketing pushes around…
Faster cartridges
Peak pressure is at the chamber and dramatically reduced at the muzzle
Winchester and Greener did this study back in the 60s
W-W lab data on three different 12 ga factory loads:
700 psi @ 26"
620 psi @ 28"
605 psi @ 29"
Your barrels above didn’t bulge due to cartridge pressure IMO
That is a classic muzzle blockage bulge, was, mud, snow etc
The reason your shotgun needs steel proofing is the chamber pressure
I am not sold on the “can’t shoot steel through 3/4 chokes”
Especially standard steel cartridges
All steel is enclosed in a cup or tube of some description
All cups are much much thicker than the corresponding constriction at the muzzle
4 thou is all there is between 1/2 & 3/4
Cups are more like 50 thou of a soft plastic or bio wad construction
The theory about less maleable steel (which is technically IRON) not deforming as it goes through the chokes like lead can….is largely that. Theory
The wad/cup allows significantly more compression
Most lead fibre cartridges are wads not cups
Lead is in direct contact with barrels
No steel cartridges allow this
It’s one of the biggest marketing pushes around…
Faster cartridges
Peak pressure is at the chamber and dramatically reduced at the muzzle
Winchester and Greener did this study back in the 60s
W-W lab data on three different 12 ga factory loads:
700 psi @ 26"
620 psi @ 28"
605 psi @ 29"
Your barrels above didn’t bulge due to cartridge pressure IMO
That is a classic muzzle blockage bulge, was, mud, snow etc
The reason your shotgun needs steel proofing is the chamber pressure
I am not sold on the “can’t shoot steel through 3/4 chokes”
Especially standard steel cartridges
All steel is enclosed in a cup or tube of some description
All cups are much much thicker than the corresponding constriction at the muzzle
4 thou is all there is between 1/2 & 3/4
Cups are more like 50 thou of a soft plastic or bio wad construction
The theory about less maleable steel (which is technically IRON) not deforming as it goes through the chokes like lead can….is largely that. Theory
The wad/cup allows significantly more compression
Most lead fibre cartridges are wads not cups
Lead is in direct contact with barrels
No steel cartridges allow this
Think i will agree to disagree with you until the pressure at the muzzle with steel shot are scientifically made available.
As general consensus is steel shot going through the chokes does not yield like lead shot, otherwise the patterns would not be as tight as they are reported to be due to the damage to the shot.
Hence the recommendation on not using chokes tighter than half and using steel shot approved chokes.
As the pressure can spike as steel shot passes through the choke the pressures you quoted are with lead shot, not steel.
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