Subsonic 308 150g or 220g

Leica Fortis 6 - Bright and powerful.
Bullets, Chasey. They're called bullets, or projectiles, not 'heads'. I'd have thought the 30+ years of experience that qualifies you to condemn your fellow shooters would've taught you that.

If, as a community, we are ignorant of firearms, their use, and correct terminology how can we be expected to educate the public and shape their opinions in a positive way? Makes us sound like idiots.

Wolfie
 
Chasey said:
OK so I want to load some trail boss subsonic loads for 308 and I thought I needed to go for the heaviest possible 308 round to maximise efficacy

However I have done some basic research and found a lot of people using 150g?

AM I wrong in thinking the 220g would be better in terms of case load issues and energy?

The trail boss load for 150g heads seems to be 10g so I was thinking of starting my 220g heads at 12 and trying 11.5 and 11.

Any thoughts from the people who actualy know what they are doing:D

ATB

Chasey
Click to expand...


I don't know what I'm doing but I know where I'm going.

150gr is the standard recommended by ADI and from their website

[TABLE="class: basic-data even"]
[TR]
[TD]150 GR. NOS BT [/TD]
[TD] Trail Boss [/TD]
[TD] .308" [/TD]
[TD]2.800" [/TD]
[TD]10.0[/TD]
[TD]gr 1176fps [/TD]
[TD]25800 psi [/TD]
[TD]14.0gr [/TD]
[TD]1417fps [/TD]
[TD]27100 psi
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I however will use 220gr BT Energetics. They will stabilise in a 1:11 twist and are designed to open up at subsonic velocities in the 30 Calibre. B T Energetics | Australian Made

220gr Lehigh will not stabilise in a standard 1:10 or 1:11 twist. Trust me I've wasted enough money from the USA testing them, unless you can put up with keyholeing through foxes.

There is a big difference in performance. Using the 150gr interlock at subsonic velocity will punch a neat little hole through a rabbits chest akin to a 22LR. The BT energetics will explode it.


In my honest opinion, use the new Winchester 22Magnum 45gr subsonic load and be happy with foxes. https://www.winchesteraustralia.com.au/products/22MSUB45
 
Lupus said:
Bullets, Chasey. They're called bullets, or projectiles, not 'heads'. I'd have thought the 30+ years of experience that qualifies you to condemn your fellow shooters would've taught you that.

If, as a community, we are ignorant of firearms, their use, and correct terminology how can we be expected to educate the public and shape their opinions in a positive way? Makes us sound like idiots.

Wolfie
Click to expand...

I know but its a lot harder for me to spell :D
 
Unless you have rangefinder, and have used countless rounds producing a trajectory chart for your loads, I would think it a waste of time lobbing subsonic bullets at quary any more that about 80 yards away. Would you expect to hit stuff with a .22rf at such ranges?
 
 
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JTO said:
Unless you have rangefinder, and have used countless rounds producing a trajectory chart for your loads, I would think it a waste of time lobbing subsonic bullets at quary any more that about 80 yards away. Would you expect to hit stuff with a .22rf at such ranges?
Click to expand...


The scope has a built in range finder and three zero settings + mill dot ret

OK OK it might to work out but where's the fun in not trying it?

By my calcs the 220g ends with 591ft lb muzzle energy?

a .22 rim 38g will produce 102lb?

I have shot fox at 50m with a .22 sub and they ended up dead but I wouldnt go much longer than that.

Plan for the 308 sub would be 50-100m which TBH is largely the range I end up shooting at at night.
 
Chasey said:
This is what I found so far:

Buy Nosler Partition 30 Cal 220gr Ssp 50pk Online. Only £58.00 - The Sportsman Gun Centre | SGC

Buy Hornady .30/.308 220g Eld X Bullet Heads 100pk Online. Only £65.99 - The Sportsman Gun Centre | SGC

Buy Nosler Partition 30 Cal 200gr Sp 50pk Online. Only £58.00 - The Sportsman Gun Centre | SGC

Buy Nosler Accubond L/r 30 210gr. Sp 100pk Online. Only £81.98 - The Sportsman Gun Centre | SGC


And this monster :D

Buy Hornady .30/.308 285g Bt Hp Bullet Heads 50pk Online. Only £64.99 - The Sportsman Gun Centre | SGC
Click to expand...

You need to double check and understand what you're looking at then.

It's the Nosler 220gr BT #30181 designed to expand at subsonic velocities that Muir and I are referring to. None of those you've quoted above will exhibit any expansion whatsoever at the velocities and distances you are looking at, so might as well save your money and use FMJs - unless you are really interested in making a clean kill?
 
mereside said:
You can also get hold of 30 cal ttsx designed for the underlever which expand at slower velocity or even look at some 172gr hard cast lead again for the 30-30 either gas checked or not from the shelhouse bullet company in the uk if you go down the cast lead route slug the bore of the rifle to determine the size before ordering the wrong size
Barnes Triple-Shock X (TSX) Bullets 30-30 Cal (308 - MPN: 30334
Web Store
Click to expand...

I'm not doubting that those give good terminal results when hunting at 'normal' ranges in 30-30 or similar calibre rifles - the reviews certainly appear to bear that out - but even the 30-30 with a 150gr TSX has more than twice the ME of a similar projectile running subsonic. Do you think it would still expand enough at circa 100M?
 
I just hope chasey you understand that the longer bullets at a slow speed and twist rate may not stabilize which is the first problem. The second is the recommended impact velocity for the bullet to expand. Ignore this and you will be wasting money.
 
Orion said:
You need to double check and understand what you're looking at then.

It's the Nosler 220gr BT #30181 designed to expand at subsonic velocities that Muir and I are referring to. None of those you've quoted above will exhibit any expansion whatsoever at the velocities and distances you are looking at, so might as well save your money and use FMJs - unless you are really interested in making a clean kill?
Click to expand...

The first one suggests expansion at lower velocities but as you say 1100fps might not be enough

The Projectile Wearhouse is offering sub sonic Nosler BTs but they are in Oz? They are advertising in UK £ so I am assuming they will post?

However you caught me before I added this
 
Chasey said:
The first one suggests expansion at lower velocities but as you say 1100fps might not be enough
Click to expand...

About 700-800 fps not enough. ;) Most bullet manufacturers will publish the optimum performance velocity somewhere on their website, so it's worth finding out what the figure actually is rather than rely on the sales blurb. A good place to start is to look for the manufacturer's .30 calibre products suitable for the 300AAC Blackout, some of which might be bullets designed to expand at subsonic velocities.

The Projectile Wearhouse is offering sub sonic Nosler BTs but they are in Oz? They are advertising in UK £ so I am assuming they will post?

However you caught me before I added this
Click to expand...

Yep, I see you've now added that one in. Still not in the UK though, and even Nosler themselves have been listing the bullet as 'out of stock' for as long as I've been trying to locate a source in the UK or elsewhere - about 9 months and counting! It might have something to do with a potential issue around jacket shedding that I read about on the 300BLKtalk forum when they first came out.
 
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i used a short 180g flat base round nose when I developed a subsonic load which stabilized fine in 1-12 or 1-10 , finding a bullet that will expand at 1000 or less fps is very specialist and highly unlikely in the uk , but a 30cal hole through a heart or brain isn't something any animal will survive the only consideration is how long you are happy for them to run before you find them ?
 
mchughcb said:
I just hope chasey you understand that the longer bullets at a slow speed and twist rate may not stabilize which is the first problem. The second is the recommended impact velocity for the bullet to expand. Ignore this and you will be wasting money.
Click to expand...


Yes its looking more like the 150g to 180g is the way forwards. The 1:10 twist seems OK to stabalize them and theres plenty of load data around suggesting people are not having much in the way of guns exploding in their face.

The ballistics don't seem to be that bad
 
Chasey said:
Plan for the 308 sub would be 50-100m which TBH is largely the range I end up shooting at at night.
Click to expand...
That would be logical. I was thinking of your mentioning of 100, 150, and 200 yrd settings. I reckon a variation in range of >5yrds would be a clean miss without knowing exactly how your load performs. On a still night, if you can't hit it with a subsonic .22rf, how would you expect to hit it with a .30 subsonic? That was my thinking. The only advantage that I can think of, is being able to get over a cross wind situation.
Cue: The people who don't think foxes should be shot with a .22rf.
 
Muir said:
These 220 grain Noslers were designed to expand at sub-sonic speeds. Optimal expansion speed is 1000 fps.
~Muir

Nosler 30 Caliber 220 Ballistic Tip RN (BLEM)
Click to expand...
And a 200 grain bullet does not have to expand to make a wound channel of over an inch wide when striking at subsonic speed. I have captured bullets in potter's clay to measure the rifling on old 1888 Commission 8mm rifles, .303s, etc. It takes about 20 inches of clay stop an undeformed bullet striking at 900 fps.

A friend of mine killed several deer with is Thompson single shot .300 Whisper using 200-gr bullets - all dropped on the spot. So it would be good for a fox.
 
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