Syndicate warning

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I have a chap near me, he's a bit of con artist. There were deer there when he got the rights,nigh on all shot out now 3/4 years later. He seems to have a knack of finding people willing to part with their hard earned for a promise. He sells pigeon shooting decoying days, also roost shooting evenings. Puts down half the number of pheasants that he tells people he puts down,sells small walked up days.
Always an excuse,deer are wild and wander so not always where the high seats are.
Pigeon not feeding in the area so roosting elsewhere, ditto decoying.
Pheasant excuses are generally that they're really skittish and getting around us today.
It amazes me that people believe him and only once that I know of has someone demanded refunds. Thank god his term is up end of this season,he won't be renewing as I know who's ground it is and he's already stated as much. He's not broken any rules of his rental agreement and he's not really doing anything illegal shooting wise.
But, he's not honest and that's what really gets people going.

Too many desperate people with guns who have nowhere to go, simple as that i am afraid.

 

[paul o']

Join one years ago vie The bog shooting club ,The ground was at much wenlock just outside the village up a track there was a keepers cottage surrounded with a nice amount of woods and open ground ,the other was a very large sink hole type ground the other end of the village with high seats up at one end looking down to what you could say a killing ground ? .
1st day we were put in the sinkhole all that came out was dog walkers and one fox.
2nd day into the woods to find it was dark and no sign of game trails .
3 rd day meet the keeper again and ask what the numbers were like last year as the woods were very void of sign or were the seats moved to a new part of the wood and that was why there were no clearings or trails? .
To that the wrong reply came back well the locals shoot this aswell as the bog members did't they tell you ,
£350 plus travel and digs with no return I vowed never to trust an outfit again.

 

[Stevie/P]

Too many desperate people with guns who have nowhere to go, simple as that i am afraid.

This is true also people’s expectations are sometimes far to high I’ve been involved with syndicate stalking for over 20 years and yes some very unscrupulous lease holders about who have over subscribed membership although most have been found out and are now not in the game at best members don’t go then complain about the lack of deer.
With the ever decreasing opportunities in deer stalking I’m afraid some people will get burnt unfortunately we’ve had the best of it and it’s on the decline. Which is a shame as I’ve met some very good people from stalking that have become very close friends and at the moment I’m lucky enough to have some very good opportunities for stalking.
Watch out for the shysters they walk amongst us.

 

[Tim.243]

Too many desperate people with guns who have nowhere to go, simple as that i am afraid.

If people took their time at learning the ropes Lee (rabbits squizers) instead of wading in to shoot the Kings deer then they would have a foot in the door and a reference...but noooooooooooooooooooo too much like hard work.

 

[baguio]

With the ever decreasing opportunities in deer stalking I’m afraid some people will get burnt unfortunately we’ve had the best of it and it’s on the decline.

I absolutely don’t agree with that statement. In fact I would say that the best is yet to come. There are more deer than ever before in England. Muntjac and CWD are numerous in vast areas where there were none 30 years ago. Stalkers will continue to die and land will continue to be bought and sold. Opportunities will come along and whilst lots of Stalkers shoot hardly any deer each year the populations will continue to rise. Therefore, land owners will always want the deer populations to be reduced which is where we come in.

 

[sikadog]

I had a few friends who were fed up with being conned with syndicates and I was asked to see if I could find some ground.
I said the only way I would set up a syndicate is if I knew all the members personally or they were friends of the people I knew.
18 months later a piece of ground came available and I put a syndicate on it.
The first year will come to an end on the 1st of May and I have a happy landlord and 4 happy stalkers.

 

[Stevie/P]

I absolutely don’t agree with that statement. In fact I would say that the best is yet to come. There are more deer than ever before in England. Muntjac and CWD are numerous in vast areas where there were none 30 years ago. Stalkers will continue to die and land will continue to be bought and sold. Opportunities will come along and whilst lots of Stalkers shoot hardly any deer each year the populations will continue to rise. Therefore, land owners will always want the deer populations to be reduced which is where we come in

I hope your right but in reality I doubt very much land owners will come cap in hand to us stalkers begging for help plus the fact the government are hell bent on removing private firearms ownership we’ve definitely had the best of it.

 

[baguio]

I hope your right but in reality I doubt very much land owners will come cap in hand to us stalkers begging for help plus the fact the government are hell bent on removing private firearms ownership we’ve definitely had the best of it.

Maybe no "cap in hand" but the numbers shot on the two groups that I'm on are well up on last year and all on land that we have been managing for years. Anyone driving across the country can surely see that numbers of all species are going up. Landowners are wising up to this problem too. Previously unmanaged land is now being managed because the deer damage is no longer being tolerable. I can promise you of that much!

 

[chrisbrad66]

Maybe no "cap in hand" but the numbers shot on the two groups that I'm on are well up on last year and all on land that we have been managing for years. Anyone driving across the country can surely see that numbers of all species are going up. Landowners are wising up to this problem too. Previously unmanaged land is now being managed because the deer damage is no longer being tolerable. I can promise you of that much!

I quite agree. Where I stalk has seen a big increase in Reds and now Roe have moved in too. This has all happened since lockdown times. Maybe the quietness has encouraged deer to wander to areas that they wouldn’t normally go to because of people or traffic problems ?? Just a thought that’s all

 

[nic531]

I had a few friends who were fed up with being conned with syndicates and I was asked to see if I could find some ground.
I said the only way I would set up a syndicate is if I knew all the members personally or they were friends of the people I knew.
18 months later a piece of ground came available and I put a syndicate on it.
The first year will come to an end on the 1st of May and I have a happy landlord and 4 happy stalkers.

makes me wish i still lived up there

 

[Koenig]

Decent syndicates are in my (limited) experience found via word of mouth.

 

[sikadog]

My personal view of syndicates is if everyone was honest they would be great, but there are so many sad Barstuards out there that want to bend you over and fxxk you, that live most things the best way is recommendation, a friend of a friend.
In over 40 years I have been in some amazing syndicates, one of them was 2000 acres of forestry in Dumfries, there were 5 guns one didn't go 3 went once a year and me. it was heaven.

 

[baguio]

Maybe the quietness has encouraged deer to wander to areas that they wouldn’t normally go to because of people or traffic problems ?? Just a thought that’s all

That and 60% ish (can't verify but sounds realistic) less deer were culled for 2 years running leading to a population explosion. Deer have a choice to either starve or move to ground with more food (your ground). If you're keeping your numbers low it will act as a sink for the deer living over the boundary who have a higher population. No surprises that they arrive to back fill the gaps that you have created so, in effect you end up doing the cull for your neighbours too! Fox shooters have the same problem.

 

[Sunrise Stalker]

Sounds like a pyramid / ponzi scheme!

 

[Rake Aboot]

This is what happens when folk with too much money and a desire to own a gun pay folk to carry out pest control.

If folk remembered that shooting deer is pest control ( dress it up as what you like) we would likely be asking to be paid for shooting the damn things.

 

[User00040]

If folk remembered that shooting deer is pest control ( dress it up as what you like) we would likely be asking to be paid for shooting the damn things.

One could take it that some forestry companies (whether the private ones or the Scottish QUANGO) are doing stalkers a favour by leasing the ground out, and any fees charged are there to cover time spent on admin and potentially crop damage.

If you are among those being paid to shoot deer, you will either be expected to shoot every last one you see, at night and out of season (common for QUANGO contractors) or be an estate stalker who is expected to maintain a delicate balance between a sustainable population and age classes and grazing pressure/habitat damage.

Very few have the patience, skill, knowledge and self control to accomplish the latter, but it seems anyone with the right tickets (FAC, DSC2, etc.) thinks it's easy peasy to do the former...

Yet, most would be better off sticking to paid stalking...

 

[slider]

My personal view of syndicates is if everyone was honest they would be great, but there are so many sad Barstuards out there that want to bend you over and fxxk you, that live most things the best way is recommendation, a friend of a friend.
In over 40 years I have been in some amazing syndicates, one of them was 2000 acres of forestry in Dumfries, there were 5 guns one didn't go 3 went once a year and me. it was heaven.

sounds good for you, but was the landowner happy?

You may have have managed the deer well but syndicates like this are why Forestry and Land Scotland have stopped offering leases - they simply cant get the required culls.

 

[wboulter]

I nearly got taken in with this guy I spoke with him on phone after the conversation with him then he asked for a deposit to hold a place for me so I said I needed time to think about it I didn't take it on but didnt stop him ringing me several times after to see if I was still interested

 

[Blaser243]

There was a rogue gamekeeper doing this just outside Exeter, he finally got caught for this and some other shenanigans.

Really, I wasn't aware and I live near Exeter, who was it?

Many years back (2002/3?) I was in a syndicate on the Whiteway House estate under Paul Davies, the gamekeeper. That was a nicely run syndicate. Shot my first fallow there, and saw masses of deer. Paid £800pa if I remember correctly and there weren't masses of other members. Owner was a bit of a handful and if I recall correctly there was all manner of nastiness which led to Paul leaving. I did ask a while back on here whether anyone had heard from him since, but I think he left the profession. Nice man, and his wife was lovely too.

I've been in three other syndicates since, on two different pieces of land. One was something like 27 members and worked well for me because I was local and got plenty of shooting. The other two were fine, 8 guns and still plenty of shooting. All a long time ago now, and I'm fortunate to have enough stalking that I could turn some of mine into a syndicate if I wanted to make money from them. However, I prefer to simply get on with it myself and invite friends without charge when it suits us all.

 

[Tommy2bucks]

Just a heads up in a hope of protecting people in the future.
Think I seen this guy on Facebook what was his name , he’s been outed on the stalking forum on fb cheeky bastard
I found a syndicate position through social media (not TSD) had a lengthy discussion with the gamekeeper about cull no.s, walked the ground did the research and paid my fee.

Syndicate was based in much Wenlock, Brockton, Shropshire.

Putting aside the times I was not allowed to visit the ground as they were working on the farm, including muck spreading at 6am in winter on a Sunday, the times I had visited I saw not 1 deer (I have thermal too) .

Although I cannot garuntee there are not deer on the ground (they should be in the area) what is clear is the gamekeeper is overselling the syndicate. Statement was that there were only 6 people and only me and one other were new members. This was not the case. I was added to a WhatsApp ground where everyone was a new member.

The result of all the above has ended with me and many others getting our money back but I have a strong feeling the gamekeeper has only been able to refund me and others is because they’ve had new payments off other unsuspecting joiners.

Lesson learnt from myside but this whole experience has left a bitter taste. Syndicate seems to be sold under various names and slight changes in location. Proceed with caution people.