U.K. deer populations

[slider]

I have colleagues doing formal survey work with thermal drones, and attempting to establish the boundaries of the measurement error.

As you might expect, they’re very good for large things in open spaces. They get rapidly worse as things get smaller and vegetation thicker.

The emerging consensus is that they will speed up and reduce the cost of counting, but the margin of error isn’t going to change by much. With things like roe and muntjac in woodland, it looks like they’re about as useless as every other way of counting them!

But they can give a very accurate count of the minimum number in any on area

 

[Mungo]

But they can give a very accurate count of the minimum number in any on area

Every technique that is able to detect presence/absence can do that.

Minimum number’ is a fall back statement by people who know they can’t count accurately. Bearing in mind that the universal minimum number is 1.

As soon as you see claims that a technique gives you an ‘accurate minimum number’, you can be certain it’s no better than a man on a hill with a pair of binoculars.

 

[NickJ]

We are never going to count deer accurately nationwide, we need to accept that. It's almost impossible to extrapolate local information given the vastly different deer densities/habitats/species we have in the UK

Do the national numbers matter? To my mind not really. Local and landscape (inc DMG) population assessments are useful of course (especially if you need evidence to persuade an ignorant landowner to act) but habitat assessments are more important than population assessments (and can be done more accurately as plants stand still)

 

[rem284]

I've being saying this for decades. Doesn't matter how many deer there are or are not in the forest. What does matter is we meet our objectives(little in the way of tree damage). A dedicated, honest person on the ground should be able to see if the deer population is increasing or otherwise. Spend the money that is spent on population assessments on actually controlling the population

 

[Kalahari]

It seems to me that the problem with all this counting is that it is too broad a brush. The problem with deer and manynother mammals in the UK is local population extremes. We need the ability under the law to be able tonhave local solutions to local problems. Probably a very simplistic solution that will never catch on.

David.

 

[StephenToast]

It seems to me that the problem with all this counting is that it is too broad a brush. The problem with deer and manynother mammals in the UK is local population extremes. We need the ability under the law to be able tonhave local solutions to local problems. Probably a very simplistic solution that will never catch on.

David.

Just remove the deer act and allow landowners to manage their deer as they see fit.

 

[308rws]

Keep an open mind ... drone surveillance combined with LADAR/LIDAR/RADAR for survey and habitat impact assessment is where the science is heading.

I can foresee a future where landowners will be held £ accountable to the “big gov.uk AI data”.

If you’ve taken govt grants for crop protection/deer control/forestry standby the Big Brother auditor is coming ...

 

[StephenToast]

Keep an open mind ... drone surveillance combined with LADAR/LIDAR/RADAR for survey and habitat impact assessment is where the science is heading.

I can foresee a future where landowners will be held £ accountable to the “big gov.uk AI data”.

If you’ve taken govt grants for crop protection/deer control/forestry standby the Big Brother auditor is coming ...

Lets hope so.

 

[Mungo]

Just remove the deer act and allow landowners to manage their deer as they see fit.

Recent experience in Scotland indicates that the removal of deer laws is met with hysterical opposition.

Strange really, given how most people spend their time complaining about all the unnecessary laws and demanding the freedom to make their own decisions…

 

[timbrayford]

Just remove the deer act and allow landowners to manage their deer as they see fit.

No that would be terrible

 

[StephenToast]

No that would be terrible

No it wouldn't.

 

[VSS]

No that would be terrible

Why would it?

 

[Mungo]

No that would be terrible

Really?

Why?

I assume you’re happy with being told how to manage your affairs by the government?

 

[Sealgair nam fiadh]

If you want a prime example of how not to manage wildlife just look at the SNP/Green government in Scotland !

 

[Mungo]

If you want a prime example of how not to manage wildlife just look at the SNP/Green government in Scotland !

Broadly, yes.

But I think the removal of the close season on males is a step in the right direction. Far better to let landowners make their own decisions about what and when to shoot.

If only they were able to extend the logic!

 

[timbrayford]

No it wouldn't.

Of course it would, that's why the wild deer act exists to start with

 

[timbrayford]

Broadly, yes.

But I think the removal of the close season on males is a step in the right direction. Far better to let landowners make their own decisions about what and when to shoot.

If only they were able to extend the logic!

Largely irrelevant to population control, apart from keyboard warriors!

 

[StephenToast]

Of course it would, that's why the wild deer act exists to start with

No. Deer are perfectly adequately protected by the wildlife and countryside act. As are all of the other large mammals that are shot in the UK.

There is no need for a seperate welfare act for deer.

The Deer act exists because a bunch of hand wringing deer conservationists at the BDS wanted to make sure that deer populations exploded to the detriment of agriculture, forestry and the countryside. That's happened. Now it should be gotten rid of.

 

[StephenToast]

Largely irrelevant to population control, apart from keyboard warriors!

But not irrelevent to people who want to protect crops and woodland. That tends to go overlooked by keyboard warriors as well.

 

[timbrayford]

No. Deer are perfectly adequately protected by the wildlife and countryside act. As are all of the other large mammals that are shot in the UK.

There is no need for a seperate welfare act for deer.

The Deer act exists because a bunch of hand wringing deer conservationists at the BDS wanted to make sure that deer populations exploded to the detriment of agriculture, forestry and the countryside. That's happened. Now it should be gotten rid of.

I cannot agree that ignorance and prejudice can be the basis of a sound landscape scale deer management plan so I'm afraid that we will have to agree to differ on this!