Unusual Blaser Bore Corrosion

[ejg]

I'd start with removing the barrel, giving it a good clean in hot soapy water. Also brush the bore with a bronze/nylon brush and soap water. Flush with warm water, dry really well and then oil. this might help get rid of some acid left overs from a surface process.
I have a Lothar Walther barrel that rusts inside slightly within a few hrs on a rainy days shooting. I mostly use stainless rifles in the meantime.
edi

 

[long_range_rob]

It's the evil that all Blasers are made of coming out

Just looks like poor steel to me in all honesty.

 

[finnbear270]

Do you handle your cleaning stuff without gloves?, I had a similar issue after using chamber mops without gloves, seems I contaminated the mop with the salts from my hands, a bit like when you handle a blued rifle & don't wipe finger prints off?

 

[JTO]

All this tosh of the moderator made the rust,is being banded about by manufacturers all to often.

Read the stuff on this page. http://www.ivythornsporting.co.uk/content/18-sound-moderators

 

[TOMMO.B]

Read the stuff on this page. http://www.ivythornsporting.co.uk/content/18-sound-moderators

Yes a well knowing fact... But not very helpful to the guys with rust WHO dont use a mod,
The manufacturing process is being let down by cheaper steel and lack of protection. This is happening in all industry's now.
But it is easy for the maker to say (oh you use a mod, there is your problem)
35 years of using Moderators with no rust yet.

 

[bobjs]

I got this on my rifle after only two hours of light rain and it was very difficult to clean.

I got a new barrel from Blaser, no question asked.

says it all really

ill keep taking the anti Blaser pills

bob.

 

[JTO]

35 years of using Moderators with no rust yet.

So that proves that sound moderators can't cause barrel problems?

We've all heard smokers talk about someone who started smoking when they were 12 and lived well into their 90s, so smoking can't cause early death.

My .22rf has been used with a moderator for nearly 47 years with no problems. Centrefire is different.

 

[TOMMO.B]

So that proves that sound moderators can't cause barrel problems?

We've all heard smokers talk about someone who started smoking when they were 12 and lived well into their 90s, so smoking can't cause early death.

My .22rf has been used with a moderator for nearly 47 years with no problems. Centrefire is different.

As i said it is a well Knowing fact. that if missed used a moderator can cause rust issues through chemical reaction. I never stated otherwise did i. But some folk look after there kit and have no problem. same as on here some folk clean there rifle after use and some dont. That is not the issue. it is poor steel.
What do you work for the steel industry? or do you not see the poor quality metals used these days flooded in from china.
The OP stated he did not use a mod. Yet he still has rust

 

[JTO]

All this tosh of the moderator made the rust,is being banded about by manufacturers all to often.

I must have misinterpreted this, then.

 

[TOMMO.B]

I must have misinterpreted this, then.

I was stating this as any excuse by the manufacturer not to admit there is a problem with barrels and rust. I could have said Well you live in Scotland and the high amount of moisture in the air made the barrel rust. Its only an excuse.
But to be clear kids. Moderators WILL START CORROSION IF NOT TREATED RIGHT.
And crappy inferior steel will corrode from the start.

 

[Alantoo]

snip...
And crappy inferior steel will corrode from the start.

Corrosion is not limited to crappy inferior steel.

Any steel will corrode if the surface is open to atmospheric moisture, it is what it does. Even with the additional elements such as phosphorous, or chrome and nickel as in SS, it can corrode in the right (wrong) conditions.

Your view that it is a done deal that the OP's rust problem is down to poor quality material...is certainly not proven to my satisfaction.

Do you not think that the description of "crystals" formed within a day in a barrel carried muzzle down strange?

It is not the usual rust bloom that would commence with a reddish discolouration and then darkening stain which is what normally happens to bare steel surfaces in contact with moisture. But "crystals".

Further the crystals located as they were furthest away from the muzzle/moderator atmosphere/rain indicates to me that there might be something else to blame.

Something perhaps precipitating from the chemicals within the cleaning agent...or indeed as ejg intimated, a [manufacturing] surface process.

Alan

 

[TOMMO.B]

Corrosion is not limited to crappy inferior steel.

Any steel will corrode if the surface is open to atmospheric moisture, it is what it does. Even with the additional elements such as phosphorous, or chrome and nickel as in SS, it can corrode in the right (wrong) conditions.

Your view that it is a done deal that the OP's rust problem is down to poor quality material...is certainly not proven to my satisfaction.

Do you not think that the description of "crystals" formed within a day in a barrel carried muzzle down strange?

It is not the usual rust bloom that would commence with a reddish discolouration and then darkening stain which is what normally happens to bare steel surfaces in contact with moisture. But "crystals".

Further the crystals located as they were furthest away from the muzzle/moderator atmosphere/rain indicated to me that there might be something else to blame.

Something perhaps precipitating from the chemicals within the cleaning agent...or indeed as ejg intimated, a [manufacturing] surface process.

Alan

I think i said about Cleaners in my first post.
But with out seeing the rust crystals first hand its hard to make a judgement.
My statement is about poor metals being used now in ALL APPLICATIONS.
There is a photo of a crown with red rust is there not.
IT is all to easy to blame mods or atmospheric moisture or bad maintenance. (there well may be some cases)
When there is so many rifles now with rusty barrels. Is that not a manufacturing problem.
Tommy

 

[Alantoo]

snip
When there is so many rifles now with rusty barrels. Is that not a manufacturing problem.
Tommy

It may be a manufacturing problem, but not necessarily an inferior material one.

Chemicals were presumably used to strip and prepare the barrel ready for the surface treatment, maybe their passivation and removal process was not adequate. Chemicals were in the coolant used to machine the thread on the end of the barrel and may not have been removed....The photo of the non moderated barrel corrosion shows yellow stain with red rust spots...what is the yellow?

If it is something within the steel itself then that is down to the steel producer not the barrel maker.

Modern steel production is fairly high tech and has come a long way from being dependent largely on the skill or lack of it by the smelters. I am old enough to remember unloading the last delivery of triple-best wrought iron from Thomas Walmsley when I started out in the early 70s. The most recent lot of steel I bought was made at a state of the art facility in Korea. I have never had any of the hard lumps (cobalt?) that take the end off a HSS drill or blade from the steel I have been told came from the far East. It often used to happen with merchant quality bar from Sheffield and S. Wales in the eighties.

Sulphur inclusion in the steel is one of the possibilities for the crystals but I would not have thought that was likely in the production systems of alloy steels nowadays...Walmsley's wrought iron puddlers letting it go after a good night out maybe...who can blame them having a bevy after doing that all day?

Without knowing what the crystals were precipitated from means we can't say what the cause is. They need to be generated and analysed.

My feeling is something introduced to the bore reacting with the damp atmosphere creating a solution from which the crystals precipitated...but what do I know?

Alan

 

[JTO]

I thought that the higher the carbon content in steel made it more liable to rust. Does/doesn't higher carbon content equate to higher quality?

 

[Alantoo]

I thought that the higher the carbon content in steel made it more liable to rust. Does/doesn't higher carbon content equate to higher quality?

Well I am a blacksmith not a metallurgist but I have been made aware through my experiences (of disasters and corroded stock!) that the overriding factor of corrosion liability is surface treatment and exposure rather than carbon content.

Most of the steel I buy is hot rolled black bar and the mill scale (the black bit) delays the formation of rust dramatically...almost like a screen print resist...but when it starts it does so in the cracks and crevices of the scale and bites very deep in those places...makes for deep pits.

Bright drawn mild steel bar, the rust forms almost immediately the oil protection film comes off, but is fairly evenly spread over the surface. I have high carbon tool steel which although uncoated and stored in rudimentary shedding has not deteriorated. If you think of old style lathe tools made from HSS they seem to stay bright.

Any alloy which has a refined and precise content could be said to be high quality. And cost I suppose is another quality indicator.

For instance Armco, the Swedish/American steel used in electrical transformers is virtually zero carbon content and very expensive and very high quality. It forges almost as easily as wrought iron which also has very little carbon and is very expensive to produce, so much so it is no longer made. High carbon stainless steel of the 400 series, so called surgical steel, is rust resistant due to the chrome and nickel content and their properties.

Alan

 

[ejg]

Maybe the hammer forging process. If dirt or chemicals are trapped they get clobbered into the steel. Haunt you later... only thinking loud...
edi

 

[JTO]

Perhaps higher carbon content equates to hardness, not quality.

 

[Alantoo]

Perhaps higher carbon content equates to hardness, not quality.

Certainly tool steel, with a higher carbon content between 0.5%and 1.5% can be hardened.

Below about 0.25% carbon it is mild steel and has to be case hardened if it is too soft for the purpose required. It cannot be hardened by simple heat treatment like tool/high carbon steel.

Alan

 

[smokey]

This is a requiring problem Blaser are aware of it but will always give you ******** about the mod if you go on guntrader you will find a dealer selling a couple of R93 barrels with this problem they have pitting and rusting (the gun dealer is being honest in what he is selling them as ) IF this was a problem caused by a mod the indications would start at the threaded end and there is a possibility that the pitting would be all over
I suspect there is a faulty batch of steel that is failing due to the induced heat cycles caused by firing and moisture but i am reluctant to go into print with out seeing the barrel

 

[timbrayford]

I suspect there is a faulty batch of steel that is failing due to the induced heat cycles caused by firing and moisture but i am reluctant to go into print with out seeing the barrel

If this is correct you would hope that Blaser would do a product recall and make good any defects.