Using thermal for stalking

[foxdropper]

Big plus recently in Dorset .
We were about to leave the ground when I chanced a last look back at the bracken bank behind us and spotted a young roe caught up in a fence in the bracken sone distance along the bank from us. It was tugging at the fence , back leg held high caught by the hoof in two top strands of wire and silent and we were able to release it with not much drama . That deer would be raven fodder this morning .

 

[VSS]

Im guessing those who don’t like the progress don’t have i phones nor colour TVs ,sat navs nor range finders ,the very same “stalkers” that use the latest quad sticks and optics but decry one more bit of tech .They soon come round though when the neighbour shoots 3 times as many deer lol.
The advance in optics was seen as a nail in the coffin of stalking lol .Thermal has finally given some the tool to actually achieve cull targets not just talk about and make excuses when not met .
It’s here to stay so either move with the times or take up golf .

I don't have an iPhone, or a TV, or even a range finder. Thermals are what I wear next to my skin. Oh, and my sticks are home made jobbies. I guess, according to your reckoning, I'm one of those who doesn't like progress. However, I'll buy a thermal imager as soon as I can afford one. Apart from anything else, I found it fascinating to see what other wildlife was about at night, not just deer. In that respect it really enhanced my experience of being out and about in the dark. Whether I would use it as a stalking aid I don't know. It would probably depend on the nature of the terrain and the requirements of the landowner. I would definitely use one for locating the carcass of an animal shot at last light.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Having looked at some statistics of guys that stalk for me, I would be as bold as to say that a thermal spotter can increase success rates by about 100% !
That makes a huge difference when you have targets to meet or you are trying your best to give a cost effective service to land owner.
Not only that, they are invaluable, if like myself, you stalk without a dog. Finding blood trails, dead deer and even ejected cases in the long grass!
However, there is also a suggestion that the current problem with game dealers not taking deer is that there are too many being shot too early in the season. I suppose if a large percentage of stalkers are now using them and are shooting twice as many deer as previously, then there could be an element of truth in this. Victims of our own success!
MS

 

[dartmoordog]

As a very slight distraction from the ethics of using a TI.

I don’t own one, but have used one on several occasions whilst stalking and foxing. But in a previous life, I used TIs and Image intensifiers, the latter a lot as a tool for my job, my right eye has now deteriorated a lot over the last 3 to 4 years and now have to wear glasses to correct it.

I am just wondering if a lot of use with this kind of night vision technology can cause long term damage to the dominant eye. Just a thought.

 

[jimbo1984]

As a very slight distraction from the ethics of using a TI.

I don’t own one, but have used one on several occasions whilst stalking and foxing. But in a previous life, I used TIs and Image intensifiers, the latter a lot as a tool for my job, my right eye has now deteriorated a lot over the last 3 to 4 years and now have to wear glasses to correct it.

I am just wondering if a lot of use with this kind of night vision technology can cause long term damage to the dominant eye. Just a thought.

A concern of mine too !

 

[Monkey Spanker]

As a very slight distraction from the ethics of using a TI.

I don’t own one, but have used one on several occasions whilst stalking and foxing. But in a previous life, I used TIs and Image intensifiers, the latter a lot as a tool for my job, my right eye has now deteriorated a lot over the last 3 to 4 years and now have to wear glasses to correct it.

I am just wondering if a lot of use with this kind of night vision technology can cause long term damage to the dominant eye. Just a thought.

Military pilots have been flying on Image Intensifying and thermal vision for years with no ill effect. I've had a phenomenon known as 'brown eye' after protracted periods on NVG but it's a temporary effect.
I use my left eye to scan with a spotter and keep my right eye used to low light for taking the shot through the scope.
MS

 

[Koenig]

TI’s are good bits of kit for spotting all sorts of things - people/dogs/livestock...and of course game/vermin. They are not however a replacement for bino’s or the mark 1 eyeball. You only have to look at the results of a number of incidents recently where the ‘hunter’ shot at the heat source without identifying it properly to see the pitfalls. As said earlier, just because you can see it doesn’t mean you have to shoot it. I spent 60 mins watching a Roe Doe and follower that I’d initially picked up on TI and then followed up with bino’s. Didn’t shoot her as she was the wrong animal to shoot and didn’t fit the full plan. Only you pull the trigger...

 

[hunter243]

I did say some years ago...... the beginning of the end for stalking.......if stalkers are happy to use them, they can't complain when poachers use them.

And the more the professional cullers use them, the quicker they'll be out of work and the stalkers will be out of deer.

There are not many who will not shoot more deer using them, all except the wise who know when to stop.

Isn't that a bit like saying a driver travelling legally and within the speed limit can't complain when he's almost run off the road by a joyrider? In my opinion poaching is poaching regardless of what equipment's used to carry it out.

 

[Ewich]

Vss, not legal in Scotland

 

[mealiejimmy]

Vss, not legal in Scotland

It's not legal to shoot any species of deer in Scotland using a rifle fitted with a thermal scope, but it is perfectly legal to use a thermal to spot deer.
SNH are consulting about a change in the law that would allow night vision and thermal devices to be used for shooting deer at night under licence.
AFAIK, there are no discussions about allowing the use of NV or thermal for shooting deer in daylight and/or without a licence.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[rem284]

It is quite obvious there are two camps on this thread, those that see deer as a sporting quarry, and those who see deer as vermin. I've used lamping for foxes with centerfire on occasion when a fox has been shot at so often with shotguns and refused to be called into range, I'd use NV/thermal as foxes are vermin. The excuse this is a technology to aid a cull target under time constraints I don't agree with, maybe the stalker should be enlisting helpers instead advertising on this forum for instance, or give up the ground to someone whom time constraints aren't an issue?

Why do you call foxes vermin and deer a sporting quarry. I regard them equal. Just the reason for killing them is different. Deer damage trees, foxes take game, livestock etc. I would like a helper but there would be issuses with the management. Its been tried before, some success and some unsuccessful. It is hard to beat a dedicated knowledgeable person with modern technology.

 

[foxdropper]

Last sentence , in a nutshell mate .

 

[zambezi]

I use my left eye to scan with a spotter and keep my right eye used to low light for taking the shot through the scope.

+1

 

[foxdropper]

I don't have an iPhone, or a TV, or even a range finder. Thermals are what I wear next to my skin. Oh, and my sticks are home made jobbies. I guess, according to your reckoning, I'm one of those who doesn't like progress. However, I'll buy a thermal imager as soon as I can afford one. Apart from anything else, I found it fascinating to see what other wildlife was about at night, not just deer. In that respect it really enhanced my experience of being out and about in the dark. Whether I would use it as a stalking aid I don't know. It would probably depend on the nature of the terrain and the requirements of the landowner. I would definitely use one for locating the carcass of an animal shot at last light.

Wouldn’t bother mate .
Without the I phone there’d be nothing to download images on nor tele to watch it on,and with those home made sticks you probably won’t hit it anyway lol.

 

[Chasey]

I baught a thermal for lost animal search which quickly became redundant when I started head shooting. Used it on Fox ten inevitably started using it stalking and now I feel naked without it and have upgraded to stat of the art stuff.

I do ocasionaly consider stalking the old way with just binos, but its like quitting smoking or drinking, it always seems to be a good idea for next week

Lets face it locating them is only half the battle in dense woodland.

I can see a day when I decide the armed ramble is just as enjoyable as getting one, and then I can see me going without. But that's not going to happen any time soon I think

 

[Heym SR20]

Personally I really don't like the idea of thermal cameras being used as de facto means of finding and managing deer or for that matter foxes. Perhaps for certain circumstances you might be able to justify their use.

The only reason why the likes of SNH are issuing licences for night shooting and the use of thermal is one of cost. Most contractors are being for their time and or per beast shot. The quicker a cull can be completed the better.

But this is doing huge huge damage to the deer populations and thus to the rural economy. Yes some are doing very nicely out of it at the moment. But the cull is unsustainable and these contractors will soon be out of work, or there will be so few deer about its not bothering with.

It will be a bit like Loch Fyne and its Herring - now something in folk law.

 

[jimbo1984]

I baught a thermal for lost animal search which quickly became redundant when I started head shooting. Used it on Fox ten inevitably started using it stalking and now I feel naked without it and have upgraded to stat of the art stuff.I do ocasionaly consider stalking the old way with just binos, but its like quitting smoking or drinking, it always seems to be a good idea for next week

Lets face it locating them is only half the battle in dense woodland.

I can see a day when I decide the armed ramble is just as enjoyable as getting one, and then I can see me going without. But that's not going to happen any time soon I think

Any comment on the dozens of badly chest shot deer your open / semi open / loose supervision sydicate members shoot ? Surely a thermal will be handy then too ?
Also if you’ve managed to find out the paperwork for the loose supervision / radio contact clause from the police many of us would be interested to see it

 

[Chasey]

The only reason I don't have one, is because I can't afford one!

Flir entry level scout is the cheapest I have seen and they are a bit rubbish

I had the Flir 240 badged as Raymarine and I recently sold it for £450 I think?

That was a great little unit and perfictly good enough for foxing or deer stalking. It would easily pick up a deer within any sort of shootable distance.

Being a kit tart i upgraded to a Flir II 640 and now to a top of the range Pulsar XP50 and yes the image is sharper and I have more toys to play with but I seriously doubt if its actualy improved my effictivness to the same degree as the massive increase in cost.

My 2p if your strapped for cash is look out for a 240 especialy one badged as Raymarine

 

[jimbo1984]

Flir entry level scout is the cheapest I have seen and they are a bit rubbish

I had the Flir 240 badged as Raymarine and I recently sold it for £450 I think?

That was a great little unit and perfictly good enough for foxing or deer stalking. It would easily pick up a deer within any sort of shootable distance.

Being a kit tart i upgraded to a Flir II 640 and now to a top of the range Pulsar XP50 and yes the image is sharper and I have more toys to play with but I seriously doubt if its actualy improved my effictivness to the same degree as the massive increase in cost.

My 2p if your strapped for cash is look out for a 240 especialy one badged as Raymarine

Is that a radio I see in the background ?

 

[glasshalffull]

Why do you call foxes vermin and deer a sporting quarry. I regard them equal. Just the reason for killing them is different. Deer damage trees, foxes take game, livestock etc. I would like a helper but there would be issuses with the management. Its been tried before, some success and some unsuccessful. It is hard to beat a dedicated knowledgeable person with modern technology.

The term "vermin" is used to refer to a wide scope of organisms, including rodents, cockroaches, termites, bed bugs,[4] mosquitoes, ferrets, stoats, sables, rats, and occasionally foxes.

Historically, in the 16th and 17th century, the expression also became used as a derogatory term associated with groups of persons typically plagued by vermin, namely beggars and vagabonds, and more generally the poor.[5] and those who use NV/thermal for deer stalking sic.[6]