Using thermal for stalking

[James0586]

I have stalked with them and without.

Their deffo a game changer but as stated it’s down to personal opinions if you do or don’t. I had several deer on a recent trip without a thermal and there were blokes with them who had nothing so it’s down to the person using it also.

It will help identify if there’s anything there but you still need fieldcraft to get into the deer for the final approach?

 

[rem284]

if you work under contract to remove deer, ok, do as you need, but then you’re not a deerstalker anyway

Yes thats the point. If a person wants to use a thermal to spot deer to make him more efficient and it is within the law then let him do so in peace without the preaching. There are too many peeps on here preaching. If they want to do things a certain way and limit themselves to a restricted amount of tools and call it stalking then good, I wont try to tell them it's wrong . However those peeps who want to make fully or partial use or the tools available then let them get on with it too. I am not in it for sport although I still enjoy what I do and I am proud to say I am not a stalker. I need to get numbers, investing in useful tools help. To me what is important across the board is humane killing. If someone does stalking for the sport then I hope they do get all the sport that they want.

 

[AGR]

They can be very useful in low light conditions for finding a shot deer if you don't have a dog. I always cary my xm 30 pocket thermal now. As far as stalking goes, I enjoy the challenge!

 

[stalker.308]

Where has the sport gone in knowing your ground, identifying trails, spotting fraying and coming back a few times to catch up with the deer. Investigating and getting to know the deer and then picking out an good cull prospect?

these days it seems like people are more worried about ‘wasting’ time or ‘getting the most’ of their time...but hold the phone, is your prerogative just shooting a deer no matter what, or getting a good and satisfying experience and appreciating a thoroughly planned out stalk with the knowledge you engaged in a fair sport.

if you can’t put in the time, or you’re in a rush, or you rented ground far away so the trip ‘must’ pay off, I urge you to take up another hobby..

if you work under contract to remove deer, ok, do as you need, but then you’re not a deerstalker anyway

We live on an island that some estimates suggest the deer population has doubled on since the 90's. Seriously, there are no lack of deer here as species spread into all corners of our island.

This is a rhetorical question, but where do you intend to draw the line? A scoped rifle? Good binoculars? Goretex clothing? GPS? GPS phones? Rescue helicopters? Extraction vehicles? It wasn't all that long ago train was used to go on a stalking holiday to scotland. I am presuming you drive.

Every single item above is an advancement in our ability to reach further in one way or another. Whether it allows us to get further into the wilderness knowing we can phone for help via a gps phone, or can identify our quarry with swaro binoculars, or shoot further because of a variable/or even a fixed scope, they are all advancements in technology that mean more deer will get shot.

With thermal, the choice is with you as to whether to use one or not. If someone chooses to use one and shoots more deer, or maximises their hit rate per visit, so be it. If they end up overshooting the ground, they will soon learn. However if they maintain the same cull numbers and it is sustainable, then whats the issue? It is legal after all.

 

[rem284]

I think the effect of pressure on the ground that happens when there is an intensive cull puts the deer to "ground" well before the possibility of shooting them out.

 

[mudman]

I said when they first appeared on the scene they should be illegal as a direct aid to killing deer, or anything else for that matter, I have not changed my opinion.

A step change in technology too far. The deer can never adapt or evolve it’s behaviour to evade being seen with thermal imaging.

 

[Primate]

We live on an island that some estimates suggest the deer population has doubled on since the 90's. Seriously, there are no lack of deer here as species spread into all corners of our island.

This is a rhetorical question, but where do you intend to draw the line? A scoped rifle? Good binoculars? Goretex clothing? GPS? GPS phones? Rescue helicopters? Extraction vehicles? It wasn't all that long ago train was used to go on a stalking holiday to scotland. I am presuming you drive.

Every single item above is an advancement in our ability to reach further in one way or another. Whether it allows us to get further into the wilderness knowing we can phone for help via a gps phone, or can identify our quarry with swaro binoculars, or shoot further because of a variable/or even a fixed scope, they are all advancements in technology that mean more deer will get shot.

With thermal, the choice is with you as to whether to use one or not. If someone chooses to use one and shoots more deer, or maximises their hit rate per visit, so be it. If they end up overshooting the ground, they will soon learn. However if they maintain the same cull numbers and it is sustainable, then whats the issue? It is legal after all.

Spot on here. Modern equipment isn't required to do the job but is a tool that makes life so much easier. It's not necessary for recreational stalking either but if you want to then why not?
I use a thermal and have for around 3 to 4 years now, I consider myself neither a pro, or recreational stalker maybe somewhere in the middle. I see both sides of the argument. Although I certainly wouldn't preach either way. I respect those who do use them as much as those who choose not to.
I have taken alot more deer as a result of using thermal and the land owners have certainly noticed the reduction in deer numbers too. I stress the point this has been a job, and bloody hard work too! I acquire all my stalking through reputation, and getting the job done, same goes with foxing. It is for that reason that I have a lot of ground to shoot over exclusively. Thermal has certainly helped me achieve this in recent years. I have culled deer heavily on farms where the land owners were in total despair with them. On one farm I took over a few years ago the previous stalker shot one or two deer a season, I shot 50 each year, 3 years running on the same ground. Needless to say I now have the ground secured for the future, and the land owners are elated. Putting the graft in and working hard gets you known, and for me has created more stalking opportunity than I could ever wish for, thermal has certainly helped me to achieve this. When the culling needs to be done heavily I wouldn't be without it. On the other hand when the numbers are under control I do love nothing more than using traditional stalking techniques and equipment, and certainly take more to this kind of approach now on some of my ground now the hard work has been done. Some people will, and have said to me I have "over shot" ground. Maybe they're right? Regardless, it's my ground to shoot and my land owners are over the moon, and to those who tell me I have over shot my ground, I usually say to them, "well I saw plenty last night in the thermal"

 

[mchughcb]

Im just curious are the same stalkers on this forum that love to give a big lectures on why driven hunts for deer are bad for the UK secretly pull out their thermal 30 min after last light and start belting deer but claim they are awesome stalkers during daylight hours but can't provide one photo of their terrain?

 

[fleckhowa1500]

Similar here but it’s the big lens binos that are largely redundant. Now using a pair of Swaro CL8x25B binos for final identification in conjunction with the thermal spotter. So, wouldn’t be without binos but the need for the nth degree performance has been reduced (although the little Swaros are superb).

I have a pair of these! Unbelievable for their size!!!

 

[SussexSteve]

Is that legal? Possibly a grey area.

Perfectly legal in England if you stick to the time constraints

 

[finnbear270]

Everybody should have one, That way we could get some sensible prices!

 

[foxdropper]

Im guessing those who don’t like the progress don’t have i phones nor colour TVs ,sat navs nor range finders ,the very same “stalkers” that use the latest quad sticks and optics but decry one more bit of tech .They soon come round though when the neighbour shoots 3 times as many deer lol.
The advance in optics was seen as a nail in the coffin of stalking lol .Thermal has finally given some the tool to actually achieve cull targets not just talk about and make excuses when not met .
It’s here to stay so either move with the times or take up golf .

 

[mchughcb]

Golf's too hard and too expensive.

 

[glasshalffull]

It is quite obvious there are two camps on this thread, those that see deer as a sporting quarry, and those who see deer as vermin. I've used lamping for foxes with centerfire on occasion when a fox has been shot at so often with shotguns and refused to be called into range, I'd use NV/thermal as foxes are vermin. The excuse this is a technology to aid a cull target under time constraints I don't agree with, maybe the stalker should be enlisting helpers instead advertising on this forum for instance, or give up the ground to someone whom time constraints aren't an issue?

 

[mchughcb]

Two camps on this thread? Is there two camps on their forum and if so what is the split?

 

[sharkbait]

Many applications with thermal spotters beyond the usual find and shoot sense! They can tell you a lot of a lot on what's going on in your ground things that you might have overlookd without one, also a great people finder ones that strays from footpaths, even unauthorised guests, and metal detectors that we have to put up with nowadays! All potential hazards so you could say going without one you could be opening yourself up for trouble!!
In the sense of a paid stalk where it's you against the deer then probaly not but I would still take it in the scenario of you f'ing the shot the deer runs a distance out of view before it drops the thermal may be needed to find the deer if no dogs available!
To all you pureist I say this if you go back to the early days of mankind with his club hunter gatherer you can forgive him for using whatever means he could to put food in his belly, we are no different today!
You could say having binos are cheating
Even a rifle is absurd
Or what about clothes on your back this effectively allows you to stay outdoors longer that surely can't be fair!!

 

[Orion]

It’s here to stay so either move with the times or take up golf .

Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[foxdropper]

It is quite obvious there are two camps on this thread, those that see deer as a sporting quarry, and those who see deer as vermin. I've used lamping for foxes with centerfire on occasion when a fox has been shot at so often with shotguns and refused to be called into range, I'd use NV/thermal as foxes are vermin. The excuse this is a technology to aid a cull target under time constraints I don't agree with, maybe the stalker should be enlisting helpers instead advertising on this forum for instance, or give up the ground to someone whom time constraints aren't an issue?

its not the number of stalkers on any one piece of ground that matters as this just drives the deer nocturnal , it’s the quality of the stalker on the ground to see a decent cull in as short a time as possible minimising disturbance .
Most recreational stalkers think they are doing a good job taking the odd one at weekends on ground where a good occasional cull benefits far better long term , seen it in action more times than I care to mention .
If you’ve no first hand experience of both with or without your comments are worthless I’m afraid mate.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

Why do you view foxes as vermin?

Is it because they eat something that you are trying to protect? Does that move something to a level where you can use a thermal (spotter and scope).

I am paid to protect trees, deer (and rabbits) eat trees - so in effect deer are treated somewhat like vermin (the same as rabbits) in that situation in so far as they are shot on sight, often under license and sometimes at night. You may not like it but as they say 'a weed is a flower in the wrong place'. As i understand it, in Scotland they are looking at changing night licenses to allow night vision scopes (inc thermal) for night shooting - i can see why they havent allowed it in the past but i can't see the problem, its already getting shot at night, why not make it more efficient.

I see the argument that deer cannot combat thermal viewers which is why i wouldn't / don't use one if i am stalking just for recreation. I also see the argument that if people are struggling with culls then another option would be to get help but if you can do it legally yourself, albeit not in the traditional manner (ie. using thermal instead of binoculars) then why not?

 

[Orion]

Abomination. It's just my opinion but personally I think it's a step too far and tips the scales very unfairly against our respected quarry not to mention the hard learnt ability to outsmart them. It's more of a leap too far really imho. I'm sure I'll be slated no end but I'm entitled to an opinion.

It is quite obvious there are two camps on this thread, those that see deer as a sporting quarry, and those who see deer as vermin.

Looks to me that you're making some unwarranted assumptions there, as well as doing a fair bit of 'slating' yourself?