Virtus Precision Copper Bullets

[Too Deer]

Sorry but I just can't see what you were trying to achieve? Why not try them at the range you're planning on using them at? The fact that the behave like a hand grenade at 50m doesn't mean that they won't act like a hand grenade at 200m too does it?

The rapid expansion is directly related to the velocity of the projectile (plus shape, material density and a few other factors) ..... The velocity of the projectile is inversely proportional to the distance from the muzzle at which it impacts the target. Thus, the greater the distance, the lower the velocity.... And with all other things remaining constant.... The slower the expansion.

So, physics says that another 150m does make a difference..... Of course, it could be wrong though.....

 

[baguio]

The rapid expansion is directly related to the velocity of the projectile (plus shape, material density and a few other factors) ..... The velocity of the projectile is inversely proportional to the distance from the muzzle at which it impacts the target. Thus, the greater the distance, the lower the velocity.... And with all other things remaining constant.... The slower the expansion.

So, physics says that another 150m does make a difference..... Of course, it could be wrong though.....

However, it may still be too quick and still be at hand grenade speeds at 200m? I repeat, why not just test it at 200m? You haven’t proven anything useful. Your test makes no sense to me.

 

[Too Deer]

I get your point but perhaps the deer weren't particularly obliging and perhaps Ben wasn't minded to retreat 150m to test the projectile at that range. Especially since doing so would increase the number of variables (wind, sudden movement by the animal, etc) and in doing so, decrease the probability of delivering a well-placed shot.

I'm sure the expansion would still be quite rapid at 200m but as you can see from the photos in one of my last posts, not excessive.... All of those carcasses were happily accepted by the game dealer.

 

[stalkerboydy]

However, it may still be too quick and still be at hand grenade speeds at 200m? I repeat, why not just test it at 200m?

Or better still use a projectile that is predictable/works at all range. Eg i shot a Munjac roughly 30yrds at the shot a group of Fallow broke cover where i took three from 80 to 240 yards 6.5x55 120gr ttsx lower rib shot furthest ran 10 - 15 yrd muntjac and second Fallow dropped to shot

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

I get your point but perhaps the deer weren't particularly obliging and perhaps Ben wasn't minded to retreat 150m to test the projectile at that range. Especially since doing so would increase the number of variables (wind, sudden movement by the animal, etc) and in doing so, decrease the probability of delivering a well-placed shot.

I'm sure the expansion would still be quite rapid at 200m but as you can see from the photos in one of my last posts, not excessive.... All of those carcasses were happily accepted by the game dealer.

This is exactly the rationale, as I have patches of land I can test at short range it makes sense to. My test was not to decide if the damage would be too much at my normal ‘further range’ it was to test the terminal effect was satisfactory before taking it to land where I will be taking several deer in quick succession and I need them dropped.

My issue was less the need to put the bullet in the right place at range, that is somewhat arbitrary within 250m, but more the slowing velocity as I will be in the 2100-2200 FPS range, which for most copper bullets is where expansion tends to drop off somewhat.



Ben

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Or better still use a projectile that is predictable/works at all range. Eg i shot a Munjac roughly 30yrds at the shot a group of Fallow broke cover where i took three from 80 to 240 yards 6.5x55 120gr ttsx lower rib shot furthest ran 10 - 15 yrd muntjac and second Fallow dropped to shot

And yes I use Barnes now quite happily, and have done for a while in various calibres, but they do have their limitations, in that the terminal performance drops off at around 2200 FPS from my experience. Hence I’m looking for an option that will perform beneath this level with good terminal effect.

As well as this the Barnes are not as readily available due to the situation in the states, so a UK based supplier is always a good thing.
Ben

 

[Sharpie]

Messy. Obviously. Was there anything left of the loins, obviously the tenderloins were smashed into bloodshot dog food. At woodland stalking ranges. Maybe something halfway between Merlin and Osprey might be a suitable compromise, if that can be done.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

@Sharpie There was no damage to the loins or tenderloins, only lost the far shoulder which I would expect as it hit the far humorous.

Ben

 

[Virtus Precision UK]

Please refer to the picture of the carcass of the Red deer shot at 200m posted by Too Deer above. The projectile that was used is the 30Cal 155GN Merlin. In the picture you can clearly see that it will not violently expand at distance. The muzzle velocity was 2830FPS from a 308Win.

 

[1894]

Or 110gr - if 120gr BTs work on reds then it should be possible to reduce weight on copper

Plus everyone is doing 120-130gr, 110 or even 100gr will be more marketable in the UK where you don’t have to ensure its capable of 7RM on bull elk

 

[Virtus Precision UK]

We have just completed the design of the 7mm projectile today as promised. We are hoping that the new projectile will weigh about 120GN and stil reach the stability factor numbers that we need for a 1:9.5 twist to “ensure” accuracy. It will be an Osprey design for now unless there is a need for a more fragmenting bullet with calibers with lower MVs.

This projectile will also be tested in a 28Nosler in 1:9 twist in the very near future. We expect the MV to be close to 3400FPS hence the reason we decided on the Osprey design.

The huge plus point of the Virtus projectiles is the ogive and weight will stay consistent between the Merlin and Osprey designs in the same weight category. Therefore if you have done load development in one and decide to switch over to the other for more or less terminal performance you do not have to start over again with your load development. The accuracy node and muzzle velocity will remain the same with the same charge weight and same bullet weight. Terminal performance will be different. The zero of your rifle will not change and the BC will be extremely close as well.

 

[Paul 600]

Hi Vern, great news about the 7mm. Is there a 140 grain osprey offering for a 1:10 twist?

 

[Virtus Precision UK]

Hi Paul,

140GN will be really hard for a 1:10 twist in 7mm. We can try some but the BC will suffer for sure to get the stability factor numbers up for accuracy.

 

[Paul 600]

Hi Paul,

140GN will be really hard for a 1:10 twist in 7mm. We can try some but the BC will suffer for sure to get the stability factor numbers up for accuracy.

Thanks Vern, watching with intrest!!

 

[Harry mac]

If they are under £1 each and come in lots of 100 instead of 50, I'd be interested.

Now, THAT I'd like to see.

 

[1894]

This projectile will also be tested in a 28Nosler in 1:9 twist in the very near future. We expect the MV to be close to 3400FPS hence the reason we decided on the Osprey design.

Good to see another offering but I would suggest this falls into the 7RM capable category. If you’re testing in a 28Nosler I will give these a miss

 

[Cumbrian 1]

Your test makes no sense to me.

So it would appear..

 

[Sharpie]

Please refer to the picture of the carcass of the Red deer shot at 200m posted by Too Deer above. The projectile that was used is the 30Cal 155GN Merlin. In the picture you can clearly see that it will not violently expand at distance. The muzzle velocity was 2830FPS from a 308Win.

I'm sorry but that is just one photo (from 43 deer culled I think was stated.) That, I'm guessing, shows the bullet in the most favourable light.

Where the bullet slipped between the ribs on the way in. Then it appears did a good job inside and exiting, without the hand grenade effect.

If it had hit bone on the way in through the ribcage, which is probably a 30:70 chance, I'd be interested to see what those results looked like, together with the distance and probable terminal velocity. Surely that must have happened a few times.

The explosive results of shooting the Roe at 50m or so may have been exacerbated by the fact that it went in through the brisket and appears to have hit some bone in the sternum. I think that you say the Merlin is designed to open up/fragment over a good range of terminal (not muzzle) velocities. If so, why should it not do much the same at say 200m rather than 50m, if it strikes bone on the way in ?

I would also appreciate some basic idea of an approximate BC. I realise that it isn't going to be great, but surely you must have some sort of idea by now.

I don't expect that the shooter took photos of all the other 42 carcasses shot on Skye, if so there might be a more nuanced story. Not just a best-case photo of one where it seems to have done a good job.

I truly do appreciate what you are doing and look forward to trying some out, but I am only an occasional recreational stalker, so would never put them to use enough to properly understand the pros and cons from my own experience. Which is why I am watching this thread. in the hopes of seeing more than just the two photo sets so far posted.

 

[Virtus Precision UK]

Sharpie,

I appreciate your concern and the plan is to get as much as possible feedback on this thread about the terminal performance of the Virtus Precision projectiles in the future.

There are some more specific feedback in regards to load data and accuracy results that we will not put on this forum. It will have to get verified and declared safe to be use by the proof house before we can give any specific feedback.

Be aware that we have tested the BCs carefully by a complex ballistic method and it has NOT been verified by a doppler radar. No published BC will truly be accurate unless it has been verified by Bryan Litz from Applied Ballistics in my opinion.

Here are the BCs we have so far:

6mm 70GN OSPREY

G1: .279. G7: .143


6mm 80GN OSPREY

G1: .318. G7:.163


6.5mm 110GN MERLIN

G1: .365 G7:.187


6.5mm 101GN OSPREY

G1: .340 G7:.174


.270CAL 110GN OSPREY

G1: .410. G7:.210


30CAL 140GN EAGLE

G1:.286 G7:.146


30CAL 140GN MERLIN

G1: .299. G7:.153


30CAL 140GN OSPREY

G1: .299. G7:.153


30CAL 150GN MERLIN

G1: .348. G7:.178

30CAL 150GN OSPREY

G1: .348. G7: .178


30CAL 155GN MERLIN

G1: .357 G7: .183

I hope this helps.

 

[Tim.243]

I'm sorry but that is just one photo (from 43 deer culled I think was stated.) That, I'm guessing, shows the bullet in the most favourable light.

Where the bullet slipped between the ribs on the way in. Then it appears did a good job inside and exiting, without the hand grenade effect.

If it had hit bone on the way in through the ribcage, which is probably a 30:70 chance, I'd be interested to see what those results looked like, together with the distance and probable terminal velocity. Surely that must have happened a few times.

The explosive results of shooting the Roe at 50m or so may have been exacerbated by the fact that it went in through the brisket and appears to have hit some bone in the sternum. I think that you say the Merlin is designed to open up/fragment over a good range of terminal (not muzzle) velocities. If so, why should it not do much the same at say 200m rather than 50m, if it strikes bone on the way in ?

I would also appreciate some basic idea of an approximate BC. I realise that it isn't going to be great, but surely you must have some sort of idea by now.

I don't expect that the shooter took photos of all the other 42 carcasses shot on Skye, if so there might be a more nuanced story. Not just a best-case photo of one where it seems to have done a good job.

I truly do appreciate what you are doing and look forward to trying some out, but I am only an occasional recreational stalker, so would never put them to use enough to properly understand the pros and cons from my own experience. Which is why I am watching this thread. in the hopes of seeing more than just the two photo sets so far posted.

Give the guy a break, I have pencilled Fallow right through H/L with tried and tested deer rounds with the .243 95gn (factory) .270 150's Seria game king home loads way off in the distance where no lap top stalker could reach....