Why do we stalk?

[Stalker62]

Anyone who does it recreationally and claims not to gain some form of satisfaction or pleasure from the actual act of killing is lying to themselves or to others.

I absolutely understand the logic behind this statement.

I can only say (and speaking only for myself), I do not ,and never have gained any satisfaction or pleasure from the actual act of killing. Ever.

I have hunted, stalked, shot and killed things all my life, and I have always felt both sadness and remorse at the death of everything whose heart I have stilled - and yet I continue to hunt, stalk, shoot and kill.

Nobody said humans are not complex.

 

[Mungo]

I absolutely understand the logic behind this statement.

I can only say (and speaking only for myself), I do not ,and never have gained any satisfaction or pleasure from the actual act of killing. Ever.

I have hunted, stalked, shot and killed things all my life, and I have always felt both sadness and remorse at the death of everything whose heart I have stilled - and yet I continue to hunt, stalk, shoot and kill.

Nobody said humans are not complex.

Absolutely we are complex, and I think it’s normal to feel both remorse and satisfaction. In fact, I would be worried if I did not feel both.

I think you need to really examine your motivations. Take your Africa trips. You can have as much of an adventure (in fact, arguably even more of one) on a photographic safari as on a hunt. I’ve been on many remote treks armed with no more than a camera - in fact, the most extreme, dangerous and exciting trip I ever took was as a bag carrier to a semi-pro wildlife photographer.

If you genuinely found no satisfaction in the act of killing, you wouldn’t do it. You’d find ways to experience the countryside without taking a life.

 

[Stalker62]

I think you need to really examine your motivations.

I'm going to say no to that...

 

[Mungo]

I'm going to say no to that...


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Probably not far off the truth - we are a somewhat predatory species, so the wiring is there.

 

[Sako6.5x55]

Yes very good Josweortegoybasset…
What he says is exactly right. Killing is a vital part of hunting which you cannot deny.
Nobody wishes to be unsuccessful every time he hunts does he?
For example:
Who wants to pay money to walk around on the hill looking for stags all week and then is delighted when they didn’t get to shoot any?

Wake up this morning and ask yourself:
“Do you like to hunt and kill animals?”
Yes or No????
It’s as simple as that.

What it must be like to live in your simple yes or no world.
Do you like to get up at 3am after you got to bed only 2 or 3 hours before. Yes or No?
Do you like to get ****ed wet through when the weather turns. Yes or No?
Do you like to drag stags off the hill or through the clear fell. Yes or No?
Do you like to pick ticks off your groin. Yes or No?
These are all part of my stalking and I don’t enjoy any of them like I don’t enjoy killing. They are all part of the activity we call stalking and most of us accept that this is a complete activity and that some of the things we do because we have to. When your sole enjoyment is killing then you’ve lost sight of what it’s about, why don’t you just walk away and leave the carcass if it’s about the hunt and the kill? If you think deer stalking is about hunting and killing you quite clearly don’t achieve the same satisfaction I do from stalking.

 

[T.eddie]

These threads do bring out the "your wrong I know better than you do about you" attitude for some reason. Everyone is an individual and deserve to be treated as such

 

[Stalker62]

These threads do bring out the "your wrong I know better than you do about you" attitude for some reason.

At least it's festive!

 

[bottletopbill]

Because we like to walk or sit alone some times and moan and eat and 100/0 pure meat and we are rubbish at sports.

 

[Jagare]

I like the whole stalking , hunting , shooting scene. I like it when I kill a deer or boar if I didn' t then I would find another hobby.. its also one of the few things in life I'm quite good at. If others disagree with my view about the killing part of hunting , we'll I'll not lose any sleep over their views.

 

[Merlyn]

I like the whole stalking , hunting , shooting scene. I like it when I kill a deer or boar if I didn' t then I would find another hobby.. its also one of the few things in life I'm quite good at. If others disagree with my view about the killing part of hunting , we'll I'll not lose any sleep over their views.

Jagare, I go along with this. The killing is not the greatest part of the hunt but without it there is no hunt. I was born a hunter and, 84 years on, I am still a hunter. It is in my blood. I can't remember when I didn't fish. The mighty river Thames goes right through the centre of the village that I was born in. Can you remember really enjoying a days fishing when you didn't catch anything? I remember some but they are not the best. I was given my first gun when I was six. Rabbits were everywhere and we still had food rationing. Stalking and fowling are hunting. You get a nice day out whatever the outcome, but a successful and nice day is so much better. Then there is the venison.......

 

[NullMac]

Many hunters in the UK are too scared to admit that they like to hunt and kill animals….in those words.
I don’t dress it up: I like to hunt and kill prey animals because I am a natural predator and I’m wired up that way…100% natural instinct.
People love to say “I only hunt to eat the lovely food”
This is not true. You like the food and you enjoy hunting and killing it.
If you just wanted venison you can buy it for next to nothing these days and it wouldn’t make any economic sense to go and get it yourself, you’d just pay £10 for a muntjac and eat that instead of paying £12,000 for a rifle, ammo, scope, thermal, 4x4 vehicle and syndicate membership.

So in short, I hunt because I feel like it.

Good for you .

I am not so sure you can tell the rest of us how we feel though, that's a bit of a broad brush. You are correct about me in that I like the food, I enjoy the hunt but I don't take particular pleasure in killing them. I am happy when I make a very humane kill and unhappy when it all goes to rat****, partly because it is inhumane and partly cos it is a pain sorting it out. (Hence my lack of love for copper). Obviously I am not that prissy or I would not shoot them. I am a country boy so it is natural to me. Not a biggie, but I am not whooping and hollering when I kill something. I don't understand that attitude. Not saying it is wrong or I disapprove , I just don't get it.

Your point about buying venison is an interesting one. When I get tooo old then you are right, I will pickup carcasses from my younger friends and save a load of dosh. For now though the venison that is widely available is a by-product of either a sporting activity or a cull. It is not selected for prime venison. You ask many highland stalkers for a carcass and rather than sell you one out the chiller they will offer to go head shoot a yeld hind for you. I have the luxury of selecting prime beasts for my chiller which I can extract and butcher to the best of my ability and get an infinitely better end product as a result.

I would just spend the money on other toys

I do think you have a point about killing though, people can lose that killer instinct and just drift away from stalking.

Takes all kinds

 

[Jagare]

Jagare, I go along with this. The killing is not the greatest part of the hunt but without it there is no hunt. I was born a hunter and, 84 years on, I am still a hunter. It is in my blood. I can't remember when I didn't fish. The mighty river Thames goes right through the centre of the village that I was born in. Can you remember really enjoying a days fishing when you didn't catch anything? I remember some but they are not the best. I was given my first gun when I was six. Rabbits were everywhere and we still had food rationing. Stalking and fowling are hunting. You get a nice day out whatever the outcome, but a successful and nice day is so much better. Then there is the venison.......

Absolutely, I've had some great days that have drawn a blank. But I go out in the hope and expectation of killing something. I,m 10 years behind you with my hunting life. Long may it continue for us.

 

[20-250]

Decades of pleasantly justifying what I love to do has coincided with it being less acceptable to the majority. So I just can't be arsed with explaining myself any longer.

 

[Dorsettaff]

Funnily enough I was having this very same conversation with Mrs Taff only the other night. Mrs Taff being a lettuce chasing non hunter says I do it for purely selfish reasons and build the whole "countryside management" construct to socially justify what I do....Cant say she was wrong.
Some 10,000 years ago someone in a tribe planted some grass seeds and watched them grow before fashioning them into a food stuff...eventually lots more of those tribes got fed up with getting up at 3am and chasing aurochs in the cold and wet as their ancestors had done for thousands of years and thought planting grass seeds was the way forward.
Me......I'm still getting up at 3am in the cold and wet because that part of my DNA that brought me down from trees, walk erect and fashion tools to gather food still makes me watch wild animals and spot a pheasant scratching its arse four field away still burns strong with the primeval desire to hunt it.
I don't need to as I can buy my meat at Waitrose and know that the rest of my tribe wont go hungry due to any failure on my part but that desire burns strong and yes I do it to enjoy the hunt, the challenge of me versus a wild animal in the same way neolithic man stalked a red deer across the same landscape.
Is it morally acceptable? That is not for me to decide. I have made my peace with the hunting gods and if Judgement Day has me being roasted over an open pit by some ghostly sika...so be it !
I enjoy what I do, morally and ethically I have no qualms about it and yes the social construct of countryside management sits just fine with me!

 

[NullMac]

A well framed argument. Your views are as valid as mine so not disagreeing but a couple of comments though:

Anyone who does it recreationally and claims not to gain some form of satisfaction or pleasure from the actual act of killing is lying to themselves or to others.

I do find it interesting that people have strident views and are unable to entertain the possibility that others can hold an alternative, valid opinion.

If it was just about the stalk, you’d be a photographer - it’s far harder to get a good photo than it is to shoot something with a rifle. If it was just about being in nature, connecting with the landscape, finding solitude etc, then you’d be a bird watcher or a painter or a photographer or a bug collector or whatever. If it was just about the physical and mental challenge, you’d be a climber, or a kayaker or a mountain biker or whatever. If it was just about the food, you’d buy venison from a stalker and forage the rest. If it was just about shooting in and of itself, you’d be a target shooter.

There is something about the process of actually killing that we are drawn to and motivated by, and it’s disingenuous to deny this.

Seems to be hard for people (plural, not picking on you personally) to envisage others having a more complex rationale containing elements of some or all of the above, therefore if we suggest that we don't have a blood lust to kill things we must be lying or deluded.

I am not drawn to stalking because I get to kill something. I can assure you I am not in denial, nor am I being disingenuous. The reality is I am ambivalent about the killing bit. I was brought up in the country. Everything dies in the end. I kill some things. It's not a biggie. It would seem a few people on here are feeling threatened by that attitude for some reason?

If just you want to kill things then I would suggest pheasant shooting is a much better pass time. I gave it up as I was a good clay shot at the time and wasn't missing much so it was just boring. Yet this contradicts the 'fact' that I am drawn to the act of killing because I stalk. If that was true I would be shooting pheasants not wasting my time shooting the odd deer here and there.

A full range of views exist irrespective of any one persons belief set, i.e. just because you believe it does not make it true.

 

[bottletopbill]

What else have we got in life cant drink or smoke and drive in London.
Cant chase girls at my age please leave me with some thing to do at 66yrs old.
So all you antis and eco's go and get a weekend in some convention hall.

 

[Bowland blades]

I stalk 1. Because its within me , I was born a hunter 2. Because i have build a mass of friends all over the UK with that common interest 3. Because its part of my Business as a specialist Knife maker 4. Because i get Venison for the house and the Dogs .
I recon most of us fell into number 1. via how we where built in the Gestation

 

[bottletopbill]

And as Bowland blades states how many folks are employed through all types of hunting and the income it generates in many countries.

 

[Bowland blades]

A well framed argument. Your views are as valid as mine so not disagreeing but a couple of comments though:

I do find it interesting that people have strident views and are unable to entertain the possibility that others can hold an alternative, valid opinion.



Seems to be hard for people (plural, not picking on you personally) to envisage others having a more complex rationale containing elements of some or all of the above, therefore if we suggest that we don't have a blood lust to kill things we must be lying or deluded.

I am not drawn to stalking because I get to kill something. I can assure you I am not in denial, nor am I being disingenuous. The reality is I am ambivalent about the killing bit. I was brought up in the country. Everything dies in the end. I kill some things. It's not a biggie. It would seem a few people on here are feeling threatened by that attitude for some reason?

If just you want to kill things then I would suggest pheasant shooting is a much better pass time. I gave it up as I was a good clay shot at the time and wasn't missing much so it was just boring. Yet this contradicts the 'fact' that I am drawn to the act of killing because I stalk. If that was true I would be shooting pheasants not wasting my time shooting the odd deer here and there.

A full range of views exist irrespective of any one persons belief set, i.e. just because you believe it does not make it true.

I might have killed for pleasure as a child but the only part of the killing now I " feel any content from" is a swift clean end , i really do not like any other result and i definitely feel a level of guilt and obligation in correcting that . Yeah thinking on i really didn't have that into my teens , thinking about it honestly I was a murdering blood thirsty SOB then for sure!

 

[25 Sharps]

It’s a good job you’re not the spokesperson for all stalkers, I don’t stalk because I like to kill because I don’t. I reload and I like to develop my loads to be as good and accurate as possible, I like to reload and the relaxation I get from it. I like to shoot targets in order to complete the development of the reloading and get the buzz from achieving that perfect load. I then like to walk out with my rifle and home loads either on my own or in the company of a fellow stalker with a common interest in the expectation that I might get to use them for the purpose they were made. When walking out I get the relaxation and enlightenment and fulfilment from being in the outdoors in various locations and seeing the wildlife and nature that we are fortunate to have. If I see deer I feel fortunate that my effort in stalking them has proved my skills to be at least competent and count myself lucky to be in a position to see an animal of such beauty and if I’m fortunate enough to make a shot I feel pride and satisfaction only when I know that shot is clean and the animal has been despatched in the most humane way possible and fulfilled the expectation of the land owner in controlling the deer numbers. I then get to turn my quarry into food, this evening I ate Roebuck steak, baked potato, portobello mushroom and peppercorn sauce. This is why I stalk and I count myself lucky that out of all the stalkers I know non of them likes to kill. I’ve been doing this probably a lot longer than most on this forum, I’ve shot a lot of deer in that time, and my regrets in that time are the shots I made that weren’t as good as they should have been and I’ve never enjoyed killing anything.
The answer I give when I’m asked why I shoot deer is “it’s because I don’t like my meat killed on mass on a conveyor belt, why do you?”

If you didn’t like/want to kill then you’d be a wildlife photographer not a stalker. Those who say they don’t are in denial of the fact that they are satisfying the primordial instinct to hunt.

Which, incidentally, is 100% my reason for stalking.