Why some deer stalkers are their own worst enemies!!!

[Irish Bob]

I think after all of this it appears that many of us clearly lack an understanding of the public perception. Forget deer stalkers for the moment as we see each other in a different way to how the general public would but even so, most of us don't want to see splattered game. Sure in some cases it can raise a chuckle at first glance but to many and especially the general non-hunting community this kind of material would be very offensive, vulgar and very damaging to any chance of acceptance we might have in the future playing a legitimate part in wildlife management.

just saying

Well said.

There are many in the country sports world who should have never progressed past an air rifle, and perhaps should not have got that far.

It it is the few that will ruin it for the many, by way of restrictive legislation.

 

[User00025]

Yoda and Norma,thank you for those few words. I like you have often thought about giving it up (unfortunately I have an inbred dislike of Goshawks so that's out).
The only thing is that having been involved with the taking of deer for over 50 years I am addicted to venison and eat it at least two or three times a week. I have never been in favour of sub contacting any killing to others, and now when I stalk (like the next few days) I am very selective in my choice of animals to shoot and I certainly will not be photographing their dead bodies
Gentlemen don't give up as it sounds to me you are what stalkers should be, it would be a pity to lose people who maintain a correct attitude to the sport.

 

[sako751sg]

The shooting was done in the context of management, after showing other forms of control, with no close ups or glorying in the death of a beast .... so in this context it was professional .... did you actually bother to view the video clip?

Good advertising for Jelen though!

His opening line was roughly,"pictures,pictures of dead deer on Facebook and other forums".
Did you even bother to read his opening lines??
So,lets get your reasoning correct,its ok to show beasts getting headshot but not ok to show a still image of that beast after being headshot,and,by taking that image the pic taker is "glorying in the death of a beast" and because of that he is not professional in what he is doing?

Great,now i realise why aliens wont talk to us!

If i showed the folks i know who are not overly keen with shooting animals/birds that close up clips of beasts being headshot or one single pic of a head shot beast im pretty sure which they would find most off putting.

 

[Wills]

I think after all of this it appears that many of us clearly lack an understanding of the public perception. Forget deer stalkers for the moment as we see each other in a different way to how the general public would but even so, most of us don't want to see splattered game. Sure in some cases it can raise a chuckle at first glance but to many and especially the general non-hunting community this kind of material would be very offensive, vulgar and very damaging to any chance of acceptance we might have in the future playing a legitimate part in wildlife management.just saying

Totally agree. As being heavily involved in tourism, my veiw is that the general public do not need or indeed want to know how the countryside is managed. I have long disagreed with publicly sharing images of shot quarry or vermin. Between contemporaries is different, there is level of understanding.

 

[Sinistral]

Good lord, I make no attack. I just contributed an observational remark on an open forum discussion topic. Luckily my first 'remark' let you explain your choice of words but you still chose them. For what it's worth I doubt if photos in bad taste do the responsible shooter any good but I also firmly believe that many people, particularly the ignorant, think what they want to think and don't care a jot about actualities. You can show as much 'responsible' shooting as you like, antis will still be anti. What you need to do is lobby the authorities with facts, as BASC do for instance. BTW I read yesterday that BASC have halted the airgun banning legislation in Scotland because the 'antis' failed to produce the facts. That, for me, is the right way to keep shooting protected.

You're not doing very well today.

I just wonder where you could possibly have read that. This is the BASC press release.........

Airgun licensing plans in Scotland fail to secure all-party support | The British Association for Shooting and Conservation

The tories have only one MP in Scotland, and number only 15 of the 127 MSP's. Those numbers may shrink further on the 7th, so I don't think their opposition is significant somehow.

 

[deeangeo]

Mike i think that the uk is losing all tradition of deerstalking and respect for the sport , i have done it for 30 years and can see the changes in the sport/hobbie it is not going in a good direction..regards chris

I agree.....but why is this happening/happened?

Can it be the old style 'one to one mentoring' by the experienced to the inexperienced is disappearing and the courses that 'teach everything' are too 'clinical', without the inclusion of 'respect for the quarry', be it deer, or other wildlife?

 

[toad]

I'm of the opinion that if you want the 'middle' anti-swayed majority to respect what you do, then more field-to-fork photography would reset the context.

It's really very simple in this country:

• Post pics of yourself in camo and/or with guns on (more widely accessed) social media, and you look like Michael Ryan.... Nuff said....
• Post pics / videos of any animal with you blowing its head apart, then you look like a sick individual - this is what the anti's peddle so you play straight into their hands - and then it reflects badly on the rest of us.....
• Post pics of you (and chums) in your technical tweed blatting 10 bells of sh!te out of driven game and you'll elevate and alienate yourself - you are just underpinning the age old 'us and them' stance and this don't help either....

or, you could....

• Post a decent, respectful (as many on here do) grassed photo - then a skillfull butchery shot - then a nice sausage making / loin frying / casserole bubbling shot - then you're in Ray Mears/Bear Grylles/Phil Vickery/Heston/Oliver etc etc territory..... don't see many objections then as they tuck in at their local gastro pub.....

Thats the way to show people how and why we do what we love - and if the anti's still complain (which they will, albeit in smaller numbers as the group sympathy won't be there), offer them the chance to show us how it's done in a commercial abattoir - that usually shuts them up as a single shot to the engine room is clearly better than electric shock, strung-up and throat cut to bleed out.

Pretty vile really, the commercial meat industry, although this has remained fairly well hidden out of sight and out of mind through necessity of supply, price and demand. Nonetheless, overt displays of gratuitous, disrespectful hunting images does nothing to help our already 'on the back foot' position.

In my opinion, hunting where there is necessity to control a problem or to put food on the table is as ethical as it gets and I'll defend this position every day I am alive (and my kids will too). What I cannot do is defend 'Mall Ninjas' (good term) who act within our sport like pr!cks....

result of a great stalk

from field to table with the family . the final product something everyone will recognise even the antibloodsports fellows .

 

[Hereford]

View attachment 56189result of a great stalk View attachment 56190View attachment 56191View attachment 56192View attachment 56193View attachment 56194

from field to table with the family .View attachment 56195 the final product something everyone will recognise even the antibloodsports fellows .

Spot On Buddy

 

[Crosshair243]

I agree.....but why is this happening/happened?

Can it be the old style 'one to one mentoring' by the experienced to the inexperienced is disappearing and the courses that 'teach everything' are too 'clinical', without the inclusion of 'respect for the quarry', be it deer, or other wildlife?

I think that's a good point. Once you insist on qualifications for everything, it becomes harder to police who gets through them.

Also, let's not forget that our 'tradition' of deer staking in the lowland UK is only really one generation old. Prior to that, deer were controlled largely by driven shooting with shotguns. And low and behold, we also didn't have a deer over-population problem like we have now.

Have we let respect for the individual death precede the respect for the wider environment??

'We' certainly have done so with the Badger population.

 

[FrenchieBoy]

View attachment 56189result of a great stalk View attachment 56190View attachment 56191View attachment 56192View attachment 56193View attachment 56194

from field to table with the family .View attachment 56195 the final product something everyone will recognise even the antibloodsports fellows .

That's certainly a great way to present the results of "A great stalk"!

Even the first photo is well presented and would be difficult for anyone to find distasteful or offencive! I raise my hat to you sir!

 

[mchughcb]

PICTURES! .... Pictures of dead deer on Facebook and other forums. Dead deer looking like they have been run-over! Dead deer with eyes hanging out and skulls split in half! Dead deer with hats on and cigarettes sticking out of their mouths! Etc. etc.

I'm appalled at the number of photos in circulation on forums and social media showing a total disrespect for the animals. Some of these images are actually disgraceful!

If hunters/stalkers MUST pose with pictures of their deer, then its not difficult for them to achieve photography that look like they actually cared! ... In the end it will be stuff like this that will help get deerstalking taken away from non-professionals!!

Don't say we didn't warn you!

Regards,

Mike.

Head shot deer is not recommended in any of our hunter training. This should be a last resort and therefore I don't see many pictures down here. Nobody I know will risk shooting a sambar, red deer or hog deer with a head shot. Some people may do it shooting fallow under a spotlight, and they would be farmers or friends of farmers, or poachers but that would be it, as it is illegal on public land.

The most I've seen asked for is people to ensure the tongue isn't hanging out. For many guys starting out deer hunting down here their first sambar deer is generally the start of their deer hunting career, and the journey to respect the deer. Partly because stalking sambar is damn hard. Taking photos close enough for a deer to see the eyes and brain matter would suggest to me the photographer is more interested in the damage to the deer rather than the deer itself. What a pity.

I take every photo of every deer I hunt to remind me of how hard it was.

 

[243 fallow]

PICTURES! .... Pictures of dead deer on Facebook and other forums. Dead deer looking like they have been run-over! Dead deer with eyes hanging out and skulls split in half! Dead deer with hats on and cigarettes sticking out of their mouths! Etc. etc.

I'm appalled at the number of photos in circulation on forums and social media showing a total disrespect for the animals. Some of these images are actually disgraceful!

If hunters/stalkers MUST pose with pictures of their deer, then its not difficult for them to achieve photography that look like they actually cared! ... In the end it will be stuff like this that will help get deerstalking taken away from non-professionals!!

Don't say we didn't warn you!

Regards,

Mike.

I had a moan some time back about people posting pictures of deer with blown up heads and the "well done mate, great shot pal" yeah thanks it was only 300 yards away !! . Antis love that sort of stuff and helps there propaganda machine no end. Some people just have no respect.

 

[Pongo]

Ditto I'm feeling the urge to go back to falconry and fly a gos again
norma

Yep ide go with that

 

[DJC]

Your absolutely right, I do usually take a photo of what I shoot, sometimes with rifle or dog sat along side, very rare I would appear in the photo but most of all these are for my own game diary record and never posted on any social media sights. I don't even have a face book account
Wingy

is this an age thing Wingy not having facebook

 

[finnbear270]

is this an age thing Wingy not having facebook

Just having a bit of a play on the facebook thingy.... pretty cluttered site for navigating though.

 

[McKenzie]

If you think it's clunky on the way in just wait until you want to try & get out! Unsubscribing is a nightmare but it's worth persevering to severe any connection with the damn thing.

 

[Devon County Shooter]

PICTURES! .... Pictures of dead deer on Facebook and other forums. Dead deer looking like they have been run-over! Dead deer with eyes hanging out and skulls split in half! Dead deer with hats on and cigarettes sticking out of their mouths! Etc. etc.

I'm appalled at the number of photos in circulation on forums and social media showing a total disrespect for the animals. Some of these images are actually disgraceful!

If hunters/stalkers MUST pose with pictures of their deer, then its not difficult for them to achieve photography that look like they actually cared! ... In the end it will be stuff like this that will help get deerstalking taken away from non-professionals!!

Don't say we didn't warn you!

Regards,

Mike.

Mike

I monitor every picture that gets posted to our forum down here in Devon (Login) Give the animal the respect it deserves!

 

[csl]

Mixed feelings on this one. I totally agree with Mike about respecting quarry and indeed we do remove quite a few needlessly graphic photos from this site when they come to our attention but I suppose in defence of some of the picture posters, as stalkers we are pretty desensitised to 'gore' and after a successful stalk with enthusiasm and a bit of excitement thinking "how would non-shooter take this" is probably not at the forefront of our minds!

Also, photos are massively useful tools. Look at the Diseases/Biology section for example. A photo of an open carcass with viscera riddled with TB is not pretty, it's gorey, but if it helps to to prevent a single instance of cross contamination then it's been worth it in my view and we shouldn't have to apologise for having such images on our site.

And then there is the issue of the general public becoming so far removed from the origins of their food that they are repulsed by the sight of a dead animal regardless of gore or no gore. Part of me really thinks people should be made to confront where their food comes from. People who scream and carry on at the sight of a carcass being butchered for food weren't born like that, they learnt to react like that from their parents and their peers and personally I find it quite disheartening and hiding all hunting imagery is only going to make the problem worse.

As someone said above, it's all about context, and that's what we consider when deciding whether to remove a post or an image when it's brought to our attention.

Alex

 

[Jelendeer]

I agree with you totally Alex, and I am certainly not against the posting of photographs that are educational. I don't remember seeing such images on SD, but have certainly viewed enough on Facebook and other forums to know that there is a faction of deer stalkers/shooters who seem to show total disrespect for animals. I am talking about one image of a Muntjac with a flat cap on and a ciggie in its mouth! The back of a Hilux with about 10 dead fallow piled on top of one another, eyes bulging out and strings of blood dripping from the number plate.

I don't think that any of us should 'hide' what we do, as its a legitimate, legal activity. BUT if people deliberately post offensive photographs that project total disrespect for the animal, then they need to understand that its only a matter of time before such stuff will blow up in the face of the deer stalking community as a whole.

The TV and media are desperately looking for anything that can 'shock' the public, and when (not if) it does latch on to this stuff, then we can all expect a deer-stalkers 'life' to gain a little more visibility, and for the wrong reasons!

Just my opinion!!!

Regards,

Mike.

 

[norma 308]

I agree with you totally Alex, and I am certainly not against the posting of photographs that are educational. I don't remember seeing such images on SD, but have certainly viewed enough on Facebook and other forums to know that there is a faction of deer stalkers/shooters who seem to show total disrespect for animals. I am talking about one image of a Muntjac with a flat cap on and a ciggie in its mouth! The back of a Hilux with about 10 dead fallow piled on top of one another, eyes bulging out and strings of blood dripping from the number plate.

I don't think that any of us should 'hide' what we do, as its a legitimate, legal activity. BUT if people deliberately post offensive photographs that project total disrespect for the animal, then they need to understand that its only a matter of time before such stuff will blow up in the face of the deer stalking community as a whole.

The TV and media are desperately looking for anything that can 'shock' the public, and when (not if) it does latch on to this stuff, then we can all expect a deer-stalkers 'life' to gain a little more visibility, and for the wrong reasons!

Just my opinion!!!

Regards,

Mike.

I think you should have posted what you've just written in your first post mike ,I think you came across a wee bit holier than thou if I'm honest especially the non professionals bit and don't say I didn't warn you ! We had a thread recently about a long neck shot on a muntjac that received various trains of thought ,had a picture of a muntjac with a flat cap and a cigarette turned up here on the SD I'm 99% certain of the response it wouldn't have been well received .what I'm saying is a large % of the SD members are very respectful of what they post picture wise as for Facebook I've no idea .i for one am proud of all the country sports I do and the pictures I take and post They help me remember along with my game book .
like you just my opinion and I'm sure we must all respect those even if we don't agree with everything .
kind regards
doug