Basc voluntary lead ban

[EckyP243]

I’d encourage more folks on this forum to join Twitter (no affiliation). BASC is quite active on Twitter but both BASC and the anti’s are getting ZERO of the heat / passion / backs against the wall fighting spirit that’s on this forum. I know social media is a pain in the arse but that’s where a LOT of these poisonous mustard seeds start their journey. Get involved make yourself heard, everyone has a voice and in my view it’s time to talk back / take a stand.

 

[Mossypaw]

First time I had an MRI scan and was asked if I had any metal in me, I do have half a .22 case in my leg, they were very alarmed until I told them it was brass. Turned out a porter had gone into the room the day before and the magnet had pulled his keys out of his pocket at some speed from the other side of the room

 

[User00047]

So

For info.

Man Dies in MRI Accident: How Does This Happen?

A man in India has reportedly died after being yanked toward a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) machine, according to news reports.

www.livescience.com

Steel shot may well be found to be at least as damaging to the shooter as to the' shot' - but surely lead is sooooo much more damaging to the environment?
When the evidence is finally produced. Sorry that isn't needed any more now is it.

(read beyond the initial para)

sounds like he died from inhaling liquid oxygen from an exploding cannister, which is a bit different to what we’re on about.

 

[User00047]

First time I had an MRI scan and was asked if I had any metal in me, I do have half a .22 case in my leg, they were very alarmed until I told them it was brass. Turned out a porter had gone into the room the day before and the magnet had pulled his keys out of his pocket at some speed from the other side of the room

Mossy paw. I think we all need to know....how exactly did you end up with “half a .22 case in your leg” ? There’s got to be a good story to that

 

[JabaliHunter]

Hmm Am somewhat fed up I have to say

My H&H Royal will soon be worthless along with the Greener etc
Not sure my Hollis .500 double rifle or 2 Ron Wharton rifles will react well to non lead ammunition
My Ivory Netsuke collection, Okimono, Handled set of knives by Harry Bowden were rendered worthless by the Ivory sale ban - along with a few sets of Hippo Ivory I have
The pending trophy ban will no doubt render my not inconsiderable collection worthless
And I was looking forward to taking my, by then, 3 year old grandson on and Easter Egg hunt in 2021

S

It’s a damn shame that North Fork Bullets went under...

 

[kes]

So

sounds like he died from inhaling liquid oxygen from an exploding cannister, which is a bit different to what we’re on about.

If you read it fully my post suggested you read further than the first paragraph to what you were "on about".

 

[Mossypaw]

Mossy paw. I think we all need to know....how exactly did you end up with “half a .22 case in your leg” ? There’s got to be a good story to that

Miss spent youth. A case of having some 22 blank ammunition, two rocks, an audience but no rifle.
Which led to me having no ammunition, three rocks, a ruined pair of trousers and a little less blood !

 

[User00047]

If you read it fully my post suggested you read further than the first paragraph to what you were "on about".

I did read the rest of the article. Most of those incidents involved large oxygen tanks flying around.
Deadly!

 

[Roestalker39]

Same here, and very thorough it is too, excellent FAQ section with links to sources of evidence.

Full of praise for the voice , utterly mind blowing , there really is no hope

 

[Gunner]

The fact that none of the organisations had thought to consult with their memberships is insulting & arrogant. This has been handled in the most crass manner.

Pity they couldn’t get all the organisations around a table to then take a collaborative approach to tackling the issues regarding licensing & medicals!

I have been a member of BASC for 37 years. My subscription is now cancelled.

 

[CarlW]

I’d encourage more folks on this forum to join Twitter (no affiliation). BASC is quite active on Twitter but both BASC and the anti’s are getting ZERO of the heat / passion / backs against the wall fighting spirit that’s on this forum. I know social media is a pain in the arse but that’s where a LOT of these poisonous mustard seeds start their journey. Get involved make yourself heard, everyone has a voice and in my view it’s time to talk back / take a stand.

I know you're right but I just couldn't face it. I am currently trying to reduce the number of d1ckheads in my life. Twitter would undo all of my good work...

 

[sikamalc]

BASC rhymes with cant be asked.

 

[nic531]

This has nothing to do with the danger of lead consumption and food safety but it is yet another example of a death by a thousand cuts. The amount of pheasants sold to Waitrose must be minuscule, and I hate the term big bags I think 500 bird days are probably the top end and the vast majority of let days 200 -350 the norm.
If every gun took home 10 brace each it would solve this problem overnight, I take a lot of let days each year and it really boils my p155 that some guns can’t even be arsed to take even the prepared brace home. Often after a few days back to back I’ll happily take 20 brace of partridge home for my family’s consumption.

The main two problems with lead shot birds going into the food chain is that most game shooters cannot be arsed to eat the ones they shoot and that 80% goes to Europe (not Waitrose) and they are now saying no to lead shot birds.
This will end up as a ban when sufficient people have stopped using lead so as to make it economically not viable for the manufacturers, however the use of lead is unjustifiable to the majority of the population.

 

[Pine Marten]

What's the real, practical problem here, leaving aside the organisations? I'm assuming that no-one is fundamentally emotionally attached to the actual metal or single-use plastics. So the objections are that alternatives are too expensive, that steel can damage old guns, that they're too expensive, that they don't kill as well as lead, and that they cost too much, right?

By stating that in effect, 700,000 people are going to start buying non-lead cartridges and not just wildfowlers, it's a massive incentive for the companies to develop their paper-cased, biodegradable, non-lead cartridges, invest in the testing, production, distribution. There will be competition between manufacturers, prices may drop, and they'll develop an offering ready to export to Europe assuming other countries follow suite. If you do a lot of shooting, you'll probably buy a new gun. You can still use your old one with bismuth from time to time if you want to. Admittedly it's probably worthless, but second hand shotguns are already worth very little outside the very top end of the market. I guess it's no different to in that respect to when engines switched to lead-free petrol, and now to electric.

So it will take a bit of adapting. Cartridges aren't complicated things though. The manufacturers should be able to sort this in 5 years.

 

[paul o']

So from the Voice of shooting its not our fault ! its yours you voted us in ?? thats what I took it to mean from there man in the seat .

 

[Cumbrian 1]

The main two problems with lead shot birds going into the food chain is that most game shooters cannot be arsed to eat the ones they shoot and that 80% goes to Europe (not Waitrose) and they are now saying no to lead shot birds.
This will end up as a ban when sufficient people have stopped using lead so as to make it economically not viable for the manufacturers, however the use of lead is unjustifiable to the majority of the population.

Thanks for agreeing with me every gun should take10 brace home each shoot day which would mean that there would be no birds left after a 200 or less bird day, it would also reduce the supply massively and increase the price, also I don't lead in game is seen as a major problem in Europe try telling a French man or Spaniard that they can't use lead shot or eat game shot with lead and in Eastern Europe….

Meanwhile sugar is still out there causing massive health problems compare to lead shot:

Diabetes: More than 9,000 amputations a year in England caused by the disease

At least £1 in every £140 of NHS spending goes towards foot care for people with diabetes.

news.sky.com

 

[Big_Sparky]

Sugar is an excellent example of how much of what is being discussed has nothing at all to do with science and even less to do with facts. Sugar companies are some of the largest and most powerful in the world and money talks. Plenty evidence to show sugar would take much of the population down an inevitable path has been around for decades now. But, as with many topics in the public discourse, evidence and facts mean very little. Whoever shouts the loudest and produces the most compelling “feelings” will win the day! Much of the general public see game shooting as something done by rich folk, in expensive tweed, poncing around with antique shotguns in range rovers...... whilst, of course, for some part that is fairly accurate it obviously isn’t the whole picture. WJ et al will continue to portray a picture of Toffs on one end and blood thirsty nuggets at the other and the public will gobble it up! Meanwhile what will the rest of us do? Keep arguing?

 

[BryanDC]

What's the real, practical problem here, leaving aside the organisations? I'm assuming that no-one is fundamentally emotionally attached to the actual metal or single-use plastics. So the objections are that alternatives are too expensive, that steel can damage old guns, that they're too expensive, that they don't kill as well as lead, and that they cost too much, right?

By stating that in effect, 700,000 people are going to start buying non-lead cartridges and not just wildfowlers, it's a massive incentive for the companies to develop their paper-cased, biodegradable, non-lead cartridges, invest in the testing, production, distribution. There will be competition between manufacturers, prices may drop, and they'll develop an offering ready to export to Europe assuming other countries follow suite. If you do a lot of shooting, you'll probably buy a new gun. You can still use your old one with bismuth from time to time if you want to. Admittedly it's probably worthless, but second hand shotguns are already worth very little outside the very top end of the market. I guess it's no different to in that respect to when engines switched to lead-free petrol, and now to electric.

So it will take a bit of adapting. Cartridges aren't complicated things though. The manufacturers should be able to sort this in 5 years.

I think you make a lot of good points here and in your other recent thread. There are positives to this situation.

Like it or not there will be a ban on lead shot at some time. Regardless of what the science says and the evidence that people keep on bringing up, there will be a ban at some time. So when that ban comes along what are you going to do? With the shooting organisations announcing this plan (NOT BAN) they are effectively giving the cartridge manufactures five years to develop and improve their offerings of alternatives to lead. If Boris decided tomorrow that he was going to stop the use of lead, do you think he is going to give you five years? you'll be lucky to get 5 months. I also think you have less chance that the government will force the issue now as the shooting organisations are taking the lead.

 

[Apthorpe]

I think you make a lot of good points here and in your other recent thread. There are positives to this situation.

Like it or not there will be a ban on lead shot at some time. Regardless of what the science says and the evidence that people keep on bringing up, there will be a ban at some time. So when that ban comes along what are you going to do? With the shooting organisations announcing this plan (NOT BAN) they are effectively giving the cartridge manufactures five years to develop and improve their offerings of alternatives to lead. If Boris decided tomorrow that he was going to stop the use of lead, do you think he is going to give you five years? you'll be lucky to get 5 months. I also think you have less chance that the government will force the issue now as the shooting organisations are taking the lead.

I don't agree. So far as I understand it, the only reason a ban on lead is seen as inevitable is that the EU wants to ban it. So far the majority of member states do not support that view. Supposing a ban is forthcoming from the EU, we then have no reason to assume that such a ban would carry any legal weight in the UK, unless it is drafted, debated and implemented all in the next 10 months. That's possible but unlikely. Should such a ban come to pass, then the shooting organisations' plan will be over-ridden anyway and we will have no more time than we would done anyway. Any ban would always have been wrapped up in wider restrictions on other chemicals (like the REACH directive), and the idea that we'll escape government regulation because of this half-witted plan is ludicrous. It just signals to Government that they can crack on and ban what they like and that they will be applauded for doing it. It's exactly the same as burning your house down to avoid damage by lightning.
On the other hand, there is/was a significant probability that no ban would have come this year. This issue has been reviewed by government recently and the conclusion was, yet again, that there is not adequate scientific evidence to support a ban.

Outside the shooting organisations, there has been so far NO welcome for this from conservationists, from Government, or from anyone else. It has had zero positive PR effect, and zero political effect. The only positive reaction has been from one crusty Tory MP.

 

[CarlW]

I think you make a lot of good points here and in your other recent thread. There are positives to this situation.

Like it or not there will be a ban on lead shot at some time. Regardless of what the science says and the evidence that people keep on bringing up, there will be a ban at some time. So when that ban comes along what are you going to do? With the shooting organisations announcing this plan (NOT BAN) they are effectively giving the cartridge manufactures five years to develop and improve their offerings of alternatives to lead. If Boris decided tomorrow that he was going to stop the use of lead, do you think he is going to give you five years? you'll be lucky to get 5 months. I also think you have less chance that the government will force the issue now as the shooting organisations are taking the lead.

Why not just voluntarily phase out shooting altogether over five years? That will give us time to learn golf during the transition period.