Culling females is and always has been the key to population numbers the culling of males will have little if any effect
on overall numbers , but over culling of males will have a negative effect on the age range of males.
Where do you stand in regards to Hind Stalking Late?
- Thread starter Tulloch
- Start date
on overall numbers , but over culling of males will have a negative effect on the age range of males.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
Like I said, I've only ever been told about it so I've not seen it for myself. And as you say, recreational stalkers have a choice. Nothing to do with being squeamish, if it were down to that we wouldn't be pulling a trigger in the first place.
I might well have been told a load of rubbish, but I still won't shoot late season hinds, or roe. I don't shoot because I have cull numbers to meet, I shoot because it brings me great pleasure, gets me out in some wonderful places, and provides a fantastic source of ethical meat. If that makes me some sort of girly, squeamish amateur then so be it . . . . I'll stick to doing my stalking my way
Many don't have a choice in the matter and can't begin the roe cull due to game shooting interests not being able to start until February doesn't give you a lot of time often had to shoot well in to March to achieve cull numbers.
sir-lamp-alot
Well-Known Member
Fair comment
I've stalked (as a guest) on estates where they like to get their cull finished before Christmas. Stalkers on the estates that spread the cull all the way across the season woukd point out that it's good to have at least a part of the cull-number left for late in the season, as often another two months of potentially hard weather will reveal suitable cull-beasts more clearly - possibly even beasts that would need shooting on welfare grounds even if you had got your numbers already.
I'm not sure how that argument sounds to the porfessionals on here - but it made sense to me.
I'm not sure how that argument sounds to the porfessionals on here - but it made sense to me.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
The sooner you get going and get numbers down, the more there'll be to go round for those remaining afterward. An extra couple months of hard winter weather for already hungered deer is not the same as a good welfare decision, that's why the real hill men try to leave the deer in peace after the New Year. Unlike the access takers and their dogs who consider their list of Munros but not the wildlife they displace from their refuges.
A good point.
I should have missed out the 'at least' from 'at least part of the cull numbers'; because the ones I've known who carry on into the New Year still get the majority of the cull done before.
Dead is dead and pregnant is pregnant. Sika and red are pregnant throughout the statutory season and all but the very first part of the extended season with the os license. Roe does of course have delayed implantation but given the roe rut is July/August they are for all intense purposes carrying young too throughout the statutory season. I am referring to Scotland. You either decide to shoot females or not, if you do they are likely to be pregnant. The only thing that changes is the size of the embryo.
devon deer stalker
Well-Known Member
I don't have any issue shooting right up to the end of March, I would rather shoot a pregnant hind on the 31st March than a hind with calf on the 1st November (though I will do the latter) as over the years I have noticed an increase in smaller less developed calves in November that would struggle to survive a winter without their mother. I suspect it's because there just aren't enough stags to cover the hinds.
Too many stags get shot.
But I know for a fact if I don't do my part then the owner of the land will kick me off, so I do what is expected of me.
As for a foetus trying to stand after gralloch, I think someone was pulling your leg @Woodsmoke and it would freak me out!
By the time I have gathered my stuff together, in some case phoned the farmer for extraction, and bled the deer out there are no signs of life in the foetus.
Cheers
Richard
Too many stags get shot.
But I know for a fact if I don't do my part then the owner of the land will kick me off, so I do what is expected of me.
As for a foetus trying to stand after gralloch, I think someone was pulling your leg @Woodsmoke and it would freak me out!
By the time I have gathered my stuff together, in some case phoned the farmer for extraction, and bled the deer out there are no signs of life in the foetus.
Cheers
Richard
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Presumably then you are also content that the land 'managers' are ultimately responsible for the necessity of shooting young calves in September when the oos shooting of females begins in Scotland. A necessity, brought about by their vanity.
sikamalc
Administrator
I am fortunate in that on all of my areas it is up to me how far we stalk into the doe/hind season. Personally I have always stopped at the end of February for does. If you stalk in the southern parts of the UK you should be able to secure your cull by this time. If its further north then problems with weather and extended days where you are not able to get out can put a stalker behind with the cull.
However as far as recreational stalking is concerned I don't see the need, unless the area is over run with deer and the landowner is screaming at you. Muntjac are a different kettle of fish in that they are in season all year round and the does are almost constantly pregnant.
Personally I don't like shooting really heavily pregnant hinds or does. I have done it in the past, and have no issue with it if the job needs doing. But as I say, on my large leases its up to me, and I stop at the end of February. Bedsides having stalked all winter long its a break for me
However as far as recreational stalking is concerned I don't see the need, unless the area is over run with deer and the landowner is screaming at you. Muntjac are a different kettle of fish in that they are in season all year round and the does are almost constantly pregnant.
Personally I don't like shooting really heavily pregnant hinds or does. I have done it in the past, and have no issue with it if the job needs doing. But as I say, on my large leases its up to me, and I stop at the end of February. Bedsides having stalked all winter long its a break for me
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Very nice sentiments all round but unfortunately don’t seem to be transferred to breeding vixens .
Life is life no matter what skin it lives in I’d say .Some of those who won’t kill a roe doe late season would happily kill a vixen feeding cubs without a backwards glance ,double standards .
Yes it has to be done but a concerted effort to find the cubs is the only ethical way to justify it surely .
Life is life no matter what skin it lives in I’d say .Some of those who won’t kill a roe doe late season would happily kill a vixen feeding cubs without a backwards glance ,double standards .
Yes it has to be done but a concerted effort to find the cubs is the only ethical way to justify it surely .
paulbshooting
Well-Known Member
As already mentioned, it really depends on the "needs" of the ground. Given the venison price crash there has certainly been fewer females culled down my way in Hampshire. This will put pressure on crops, habitat and lead to more road accidents. Next female season will need a concerted effort to rebalance numbers.
Always the same, deer seem to have a much higher respect than any other animal. You can head shoot a rabbit at 200 and no one has a problem but mention head shooting a deer at 100 and you get slated lol. Same goes for fox, people happily shoot them at extended ranges but shoot a deer over 120 and your not stalking anymore your target shooting?
To Davies original point, a permission I have that is “deer control” I put my effort into does. As the season wears on the foetus gets larger and the gralloch becomes more distasteful to do. But the numbers speak for themselves and, distasteful or otherwise, the job needs doing. I’m not particularly squeamish, but I don’t like gralloching a doe with a well developed foetus. But I do it.
That being said, I have just shot mum so any sentiment for the foetus is a bit late in arriving. My distaste really comes from the fact that a soon to be born new animal has been deprived of its start in this world. Something that gives me great pleasure is watching a new kid making its unsteady way in life. But too many of them and they eat valuable crops.
A fact of deer control, though not a pleasant one.
That being said, I have just shot mum so any sentiment for the foetus is a bit late in arriving. My distaste really comes from the fact that a soon to be born new animal has been deprived of its start in this world. Something that gives me great pleasure is watching a new kid making its unsteady way in life. But too many of them and they eat valuable crops.
A fact of deer control, though not a pleasant one.
Well said jock stalk ,
I also agree with what Richard said “I would rather take a doe in March than November,”
I also will not shoot foxes until a litter is out hunting ,
I cannot stand the thought of leaving cubs down an earth .
we all have opinions and at least we are thinking about it , it’s the people out there that don’t think about it that we should worry about !
all the best
I also agree with what Richard said “I would rather take a doe in March than November,”
I also will not shoot foxes until a litter is out hunting ,
I cannot stand the thought of leaving cubs down an earth .
we all have opinions and at least we are thinking about it , it’s the people out there that don’t think about it that we should worry about !
all the best
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