Ooops
Well-Known Member
as a follow on from the Sheep worrying thread I was wondering how one goes about training dogs to behave around live stock?
Stock proofing dogs
- Thread starter Ooops
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jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
A long line and correction timed at just the right moment, would be my first port of call.
Cootmeurer
Well-Known Member
Very old timers used #12 shot on the rump. Slightly old old timers liked a slingshot
More modern types either use a long check cord or an e-collar. Either of which works well in the right hands but can be used incorrectly as well
More modern types either use a long check cord or an e-collar. Either of which works well in the right hands but can be used incorrectly as well
Musketeer
Well-Known Member
I have put young pups in a pen with a few Ewes (Jacobs) for short periods of time. Only once has the pup got a thump and I have had to grab him out, but I have never had an issue if the dog is introduced to livestock very young and close up. I have had two Labs and two Springers and all have been respectful of livestock and kept close when moving through fields containing livestock.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, horses and cattle are easy enough, chickens and sheep take a bit of work, but get the dog steady first and then make the introductions.
Some horses can be right b arstards with dogs and will do their best to run them down, same with cattle but they’re nowhere near as fast or agile, if it gets that way kick the dog away from you, kick it hard until it runs away,no point in both of you getting hurt.
2 cautions, pointers work at a distance and the leccy collar is good insurance that the preliminary training will stick.
Secondly, those hairy little black faced hill sheep racing across a moor or bog smell different and are far more tempting than a big Suffolk ewe in a field, especially once you're over 100M away from Rover.
Lastly, some of the residents will get right stroppy if your dog has a go at the livestock they’ve carelessly left wandering about.
Do your homework before you let pup off the lead.
Most important, bring your wallet and a shovel in case it goes bad.
A couple of strips of black tape across the reg plates on the motor can very quickly repay the effort.
Some horses can be right b arstards with dogs and will do their best to run them down, same with cattle but they’re nowhere near as fast or agile, if it gets that way kick the dog away from you, kick it hard until it runs away,no point in both of you getting hurt.
2 cautions, pointers work at a distance and the leccy collar is good insurance that the preliminary training will stick.
Secondly, those hairy little black faced hill sheep racing across a moor or bog smell different and are far more tempting than a big Suffolk ewe in a field, especially once you're over 100M away from Rover.
Lastly, some of the residents will get right stroppy if your dog has a go at the livestock they’ve carelessly left wandering about.
Do your homework before you let pup off the lead.
Most important, bring your wallet and a shovel in case it goes bad.
A couple of strips of black tape across the reg plates on the motor can very quickly repay the effort.
This ^
Ive seen rock steady dogs go out on the fell and decide they fancy a bit of mutton.Always brings a laugh and a lot of **** taking though, not so funny if its your own dog that decides its kebab time mind.
Time is the essence, sit down with a dog, no sudden movements. If a dog feel threatened it will react, if you move suddenly , the dog will react, tether a dog down, snd sit with it. If your calm with stock, the dog will be. It takes time & patience. Stock are curious, they will gather round, dog feels threatened, it will react. Walking slowly away is the trick, don't let it look back, it must look forward like you, don't let it react, at this point rewards work well, as does a tight lead. It takes a lot of time, be gentle. And start them early.
This^^^
Ignore all that bullshite about shutting the dog in a pen with an aggressive ram, or with a ewe and lamb, unless you want to ruin the dog.
An opinion based on experience. I have seen many timid dogs ruined, and many tough dogs made aggressive towards stock, by that method.
I have also trained a lot of dogs, both for myself and for other people.
Jon P
Well-Known Member
I have had to do this with two dogs I have had out of about 30 in total. One lurcher and one terrier, both dogs came to me as older dogs and would not take the standard training so went in with ewe and lamb, cured both dogs of Chasing sheep and they both made good fox dogs so not ruined. I would not use this method with a puppy though.
Musketeer
Well-Known Member
That has not been my experience. The method worked perfectly well with the dogs I applied it to.
I once had a really good German Shepherd that was going to fail its training as a police dog, because it was too interested in sheep. I used this method and the pup went on to be a very good service dog and took no further interest in livestock. He just did his job.
Trouble is, you don't know if it's going to work until you try it, and if it doesn't work then the damage is done. You can't undo it. Maybe you have been lucky. It's certainly not something to recommend.
My you are practical!
Lloyd90
Well-Known Member
I find it a bit mad the number of people who say e-collars are cruel, but think it is perfectly acceptable to throw a dog, especially often a young dog, into an enclosure with a ram and let the ram give it a hiding :O
I know the lurcher boys have used e-collars to break dogs to stock and deer, and know in the US and Oz they use them to break dogs to gators and snakes.
E-collars get a bad rep because people try to use them to make up for lazy training.
In Guy Wallace's book, he said he takes the dog fairly young walking up to sheep with a bamboo stick in his boot, when the dog goes to show a slight interest in stock, he gives it a whack across the back, but pretends entirely that he had nothing to do with it, as if the dog getting a whack was unknown to him.
I see this as a very similar way of using the e-collar, trying to get the dog to associate the stock with the negative experience and want to stay away from them.
Personally I just walked my dog up to sheep, if he showed any interest gave him a sharp tug and told him to leave it in no uncertain terms. After about 3-4 times he didn't even bother looking at them.
Other dogs may need more robust stock breaking.
I know the lurcher boys have used e-collars to break dogs to stock and deer, and know in the US and Oz they use them to break dogs to gators and snakes.
E-collars get a bad rep because people try to use them to make up for lazy training.
In Guy Wallace's book, he said he takes the dog fairly young walking up to sheep with a bamboo stick in his boot, when the dog goes to show a slight interest in stock, he gives it a whack across the back, but pretends entirely that he had nothing to do with it, as if the dog getting a whack was unknown to him.
I see this as a very similar way of using the e-collar, trying to get the dog to associate the stock with the negative experience and want to stay away from them.
Personally I just walked my dog up to sheep, if he showed any interest gave him a sharp tug and told him to leave it in no uncertain terms. After about 3-4 times he didn't even bother looking at them.
Other dogs may need more robust stock breaking.
Lloyd90
Well-Known Member
Oh and beware being too harsh on stock such as birds... a bloke on our shoot bollocked his young cocker for chasing a bird many years ago and the cocker has NEVER picked game. She is a fantastic little beating dog, but will not touch or pick any game after that one time being told off.
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