Copper Bullets for Foxing

[Bowland blades]

6.5 mm in a 260 rem .. 243 100 grain copper if you could find them would require a fastervtwist rate than a std 243 I think 85 I'd tge max in 6mm copper ?
Make a nice custom build though if you could get 100 grain ttsx , would maybe blow up light varmint bullets in flight though ?

 

[kenbro]

If your going to use copper for stalking, why go to the bother of loading a separate round for a small amount of foxing. I think the rifle world loves making things way more complicated than they need to be at times.

You don’t need a reason to do anything shooting related, thought you’d know that by now.
Ken.

 

[njc110381]

You shouldn't rely on hitting your target to make your shot safe.

Bigger bullets don't need bigger backstops. All bullets need adequate backstop.

Can’t say I agree with that at all. Back stop is a back stop!!!
What if you miss with said 17?? It’s carrying on a fair distance then

I disagree. A light frangible bullet is less likely to ricochet, full stop. A mono metal deer bullet will often pass through a fox and keep going like the fox wasn't even there, there's no advantage to that.

However you look at it, whilst agreeing that there's no substitute for a good backstop, the safety margin between bullets used can vary massively.

If someone forced you to lie on the ground 50m behind a fox and told you to choose whether they shot it with a light varmint bullet or a heavy deer bullet, which would you choose? That's essentially the call you make every time you pull the trigger if some daft walker is wandering where they shouldn't be and you haven't spotted them. Every little snippet of safety advantage should be utilised - another reason I've started moving over to Yew Tree bullets from my usual Barnes for deer. They break up more reliably.

 

[Bowland blades]

I disagree. A light frangible bullet is less likely to ricochet, full stop. A mono metal deer bullet will often pass through a fox and keep going like the fox wasn't even there, there's no advantage to that.

However you look at it, whilst agreeing that there's no substitute for a good backstop, the safety margin between bullets used can vary massively.

If someone forced you to lie on the ground 50m behind a fox and told you to choose whether they shot it with a light varmint bullet or a heavy deer bullet, which would you choose? That's essentially the call you make every time you pull the trigger if some daft walker is wandering where they shouldn't be and you haven't spotted them. Every little snippet of safety advantage should be utilised - another reason I've started moving over to Yew Tree bullets from my usual Barnes for deer. They break up more reliably.

Actually a strange thing happenscwhen you start using copper ( I use ttsx Barnes 100 grain 6.5 mm ) you start finding bullets after passing through . Kid you not I have quite a growing collection .
If its tge petals staying intact and working had to use thier energy in the beastvrathervthan popping out with loads left I have no way of saying ( and I give no extra allowance for copper not against it as such )
A safe shot is a safe shot the bullet used shouldn't be trusted though does the same or red stags or the smallest species of deer and foxes . Don't know about all the copper bullets because I haven't used them all but 100% weight retention is common but to is finding the small skid mark in the grass and a well expanded bullet behing the animal
Weird but true and the 100 grain ttsx doesn't pencil through like a similar lead deer bullet usually does . You know bang , flop and just as you make ton clear the mess the fox gets up and runs with a lead deer bullet . Not had that one yet either
Throw away what you know about bullets when you swap to copper from jackets lead
BUT A SAFE SHOT IS A SAFE SHOT AND NO BULLET MAKES FOR A SHOT YOU WOULNT TAKE WITH PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING

 

[njc110381]

Actually a strange thing happenscwhen you start using copper ( I use ttsx Barnes 100 grain 6.5 mm ) you start finding bullets after passing through . Kid you not I have quite a growing collection .
If its tge petals staying intact and working had to use thier energy in the beastvrathervthan popping out with loads left I have no way of saying ( and I give no extra allowance for copper not against it as such )
A safe shot is a safe shot the bullet used shouldn't be trusted though does the same or red stags or the smallest species of deer and foxes . Don't know about all the copper bullets because I haven't used them all but 100% weight retention is common but to is finding the small skid mark in the grass and a well expanded bullet behing the animal
Weird but true and the 100 grain ttsx doesn't pencil through like a similar lead deer bullet usually does . You know bang , flop and just as you make ton clear the mess the fox gets up and runs with a lead deer bullet . Not had that one yet either
Throw away what you know about bullets when you swap to copper from jackets lead
BUT A SAFE SHOT IS A SAFE SHOT AND NO BULLET MAKES FOR A SHOT YOU WOULNT TAKE WITH PRETTY MUCH ANYTHING

Experiences vary I guess. I've used Barnes bullets in calibres from .223 to .416 for over ten years - I find that they pass through very well? On the other hand a fragmenting varmint bullet rarely exits and you don't often see skids in the grass behind the quarry. I'm not saying that they never fail to perform as they should or that they can be trusted to stop in the target, rather that they give a better safety margin.

As someone who shoots deer mainly in woodlands, I've seen plenty of trees with a chunk of bark missing from where my bullet has passed through a deer and still had a lot of energy left in it. That's with both copper and lead core.

 

[Bowland blades]

Experiences vary I guess. I've used Barnes bullets in calibres from .223 to .416 for over ten years - I find that they pass through very well? On the other hand a fragmenting varmint bullet rarely exits and you don't often see skids in the grass behind the quarry. I'm not saying that they never fail to perform as they should or that they can be trusted to stop in the target, rather that they give a better safety margin.

As someone who shoots deer mainly in woodlands, I've seen plenty of trees with a chunk of bark missing from where my bullet has passed through a deer and still had a lot of energy left in it. That's with both copper and lead core.

Yes they do pass through but the weird thing is how much energy drains from the best , I meannits like someone putvreal effort into designing them there is no difference at all in the shot you take or don't with any bullet ( that's reasonable obviously its an energy increased factor thing when you get to extreames of low or high power

 

[Alantoo]

Hi Everyone

I only do a small amount of foxing and I'm in the process of converting over to Copper for stalking and I'm wondering If I could develop a single .243 round that would be effective for both. The @Yew Tree Fieldsports 80gr bullet appears to have a more fragile design than Barnes so this is where I'm think of starting.

I appreciate copper bullets are significantly more expensive than lead but my volumes are low so this would not be a factor and I do find it pretty appealing to just get more shooting in with a single rifle / bullet combo where I'm really confident with my drops etc.

Can anyone share any experiences, good or bad of using copper bullets for fox control or any considerations that I need to make for this little project.

Thanks all..

Attractive as a single bullet may be for the reasons you cite, I think you are better off using a bullet that is designed for the quarry. So as in lead core you would maybe use a soft point for deer and a V-MAX for fox, you should consider doing the same with lead free.

Having said that, bullets designed for deer will undoubtedly kill foxes, but bullets designed for Foxes would be preferable.

The drops you would encounter out to 200m would not vary very much between similar weight bullets from the same chambering.

Barnes do make a frangible core lead free bullet called Varmint Grenade. Some of the YouTube comparisons show it to be even more explosive than V-MAX. In 308 Barnes call it MPG. DRT also make a similar frangible compressed lead free particle core.

Lehigh Defense make mono metal bullets which are designed to fragment, Controlled Chaos is one of them. Yew Tree bullets, Nielsen and Virtus Precision all produce fragmenting designed lead free mono metal.

RWS Evolution Green are a tin core partition with a frangible/fragmenting front section and a solid tin core rear.

Alan

 

[rookyshot]

Lehigh Defense make mono metal bullets which are designed to fragment, Controlled Chaos is one of them. Yew Tree bullets, Nielsen and Virtus Precision all produce fragmenting designed lead free mono metal.

@Alantoo You make some great points and it was very much Richard's @Yew Tree Fieldsports fragmenting copper design that got me thinking of the possibility for a single Fox / Deer load. Appreciate this bullet won't be as fragile as vmax or similar but I'm sure it'll be more than adequate for what I need.

 

[Andrewslater]

100 grain ttsx these bullets kill anything incredible to find a bullet that opens so fast yet holds its full weight yet still looses so much energy inside tge very small and very large UK quarry

I cant find a 100gr 6mm ttsx anywhere, are they discontinued?

 

[Bowland blades]

I cant find a 100gr 6mm ttsx anywhere, are they discontinued?

no just sell fast in America , that now has the creedmore virus running rampant

 

[JH83]

6.5 100g TTSX pops a fox very nicely-fairly dramatically up close as a friend watching with thermal could attest to ! As caberslash said they’re thin skinned, any deer legal calibre with a centre mass hit and it’s lights out wether copper or lead.