Lead ban consultations

[aris]

I got this email from my rifle club via the NSRA

If you are a shooter in Britain you use lead – it’s the one thing that all rifle, pistol and shotgun shooting disciplines have in common. Although the NSRA is focused on small-bore, airgun and crossbow shooting disciplines our affiliated clubs and individuals take part and are insured for many other shooting sports all of which use lead. Even match crossbow shooting uses lead “bosses” in the centre of the target to stop and retain the bolt when shot.

This message is not just for NSRA members and affiliated clubs but for every shooter in Britain. Please pass this on to all of your shooting contacts.

Background

The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has been tasked by the government to look at the risks posed by lead ammunition, when used outdoors, to health, wildlife and the environment. An initial consultation took place that the NSRA responded to with a paper outlining the issues and submitted it to the HSE and European Chemical Agency.

https://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/news/3798-nsra-statement-on-the-proposals-from-hse-regarding-lead-ammunition

Following the consultation period, the HSE released a document on 6th May 2022 that makes proposals that, if they become law, will destroy shooting sports in Britain. The document is not easy reading but can be viewed at:

https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/crd-reach/restriction-proposals-004/

The basic thrust of the HSE document is that they believe that:

Shotgun ammunition:

There should be a ban on the sale and use of lead shotgun ammunition.

• 18-month transition period.
• Optional derogation, allowing the sale and use for clay pigeon shooting by licensed athletes at licensed shooting grounds. A shooting ground license will require annual recovery of 90%+ of spent lead shot, containment and treatment of run-off and a ban on agricultural use in the site boundary.

Note: If the optional derogation is taken forward, the transition period for all uses of lead shot will be extended to 5 years.

Lead bullets (including centre-fire, rim-fire, airgun and any other projectile containing lead) There should be a ban on the sale and use of all lead bullets.

• 18-month transition period for large calibre (5.6mm or larger) or 5 years for small calibre (smaller than 5.6mm) including rim-fire and airguns and any projectiles not defined as gunshot
• Optional derogation allowing continued use of lead bullets at licensed ranges with appropriate environmental protection measures. A license will require regular recovery of >90% of lead from bullet traps, a ban on agricultural use in site boundaries.

NSRA Position

The NSRA does not agree with the current proposals. In our view, they are disproportionate and in many areas, not adequately evidenced. There is also legislation in place that covers lead contamination in water, food and animal feed. We have released a Position Statement that can be viewed at:

Statement on the Proposals from HSE regarding Lead Ammunition ammunition

What Next?

The HSE has released another public consultation that can be seen at:

https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/crd-reach/restriction-proposals-004/consultation/intro/

All shooters and organisations must respond to this consultation.

At first glance, it appears the questions in the consultation are not for individuals. However, you don’t have to answer them all. Continue through the document and answer as many questions as you feel able. Keep your answers simple and to the point and avoid any answers that could undermine our arguments.

Key areas:

• Stress how the lead ban will negatively affect your involvement in shooting sport.
• State that there are no viable alternatives for lead in many shooting disciplines e.g. small-bore rifle, airgun

and muzzle loading. This is well evidenced in our paper.

• Target shooting already involves all the projectiles being captured in one place where they can be collected

and removed.

• On clay target ranges all shot is contained in a designated area.
• There is a major financial impact for clubs and individuals

The Biggest Problem

It’s sad to say but one of the big dangers is from within and it is that of apathy. Many will read this and other governing body documents and think:

• Other people will do it so I’ll not bother
• It won’t affect me
• I’m a member of xyz organisation who will do it for me

The truth is the Government will look at how many people in total completed the consultation and of these, how many were for a ban on lead and how many were not. Be assured that the anti-gun and anti-lead lobby will not hold back. They will respond and if their voice is louder than ours we lose.

Furthermore, when we and other organisations are lobbying the government we will need the numbers to underpin our argument. Please fill in the consultation. Also, get friends to fill it in. If the government has asked for our opinion it will be difficult for them to ignore our response.

We will continue to fight the ban both independently and alongside other organisations including the British Shooting Sports Council but we need your help.

Please respond to the consultation,

Yours sincerely,

Dave Froggett

CEO Shooting NSRA

 

[Liveonce]

Completed the consultation, it’s as poorly constructed as the HSE proposal, asking for information you think theyveiuld have obtained prior to writing the report.

 

[aris]

Yes very poor - probably purposely so.

It is the thin edge of a wedge to try and kill shooting sports.

People on here may well say it doesn’t affect them as they are moving to copper deer rounds, but for shotguns or air rifles or small bore target sports, the alternatives are just not feasible.

Reclaiming lead may too be a non starter for many small grass roots clubs and for larger ones may increase costs to a point where not enough people can afford it.

Without grass roots, shooting sports will die, RFD’s will close, and it will affect everybody.

 

[308tikka]

Well done NSRA.

The canary in the coalmine is the UK gun trade dying. All those people who think they will easily be able to obtain primers, powder and their copper bullets when the market is 5% of what it is currently, had better think again, this time with their other brain cell.

Stick up for other shooting sports, because ‘if we do not hang together we will surely hang separately.’

 

[dave 67]

Who wrote this form Handguns and rifles ,hands up which one of you has got all the handguns
Also a lot of those questions are very subjective as they ask for conclusions to be drawn and that is not true data but pure guess work.

 

[Trickyd66]

View attachment 273197
Who wrote this form Handguns and rifles ,hands up which one of you has got all the handguns
Also a lot of those questions are very subjective as they ask for conclusions to be drawn and that is not true data but pure guess work.

Plenty of Black powder shooters use "hand" guns. No other option but to use lead. And I'm sure there are plenty of legally held and used hand guns about under section 5 licences.

 

[Reloader708]

It's not really a questionnaire you can fill out. most of the questions I have no idea about!
I just filled in the boxes I could, skipped the rest.
What else do you do, I imagine it's already decided anyhow.

 

[enfieldspares]

View attachment 273197
Who wrote this form Handguns and rifles ,hands up which one of you has got all the handguns
Also a lot of those questions are very subjective as they ask for conclusions to be drawn and that is not true data but pure guess work.

I know from real usage that non-lead bullets on an indoor range using a steel plate backstop behind a linatex curtain is not good. Either in 9mm Parabellum or 7.62mm Tokarev. Eastern block surplus 9mm and 7.62mm steel cored bullets. Think "getting your own back" and you'll get the idea. And going forward whilst safe frangible non-lead 9mm (so in other words designed to expand upon impact so as not to "bounce back" but deform in a controlled safe manner on impact with the backplate) might be available surely it will fall foul of the still current law that banned expanding ammunition in pistol calibres?

 

[Trickyd66]

It's not really a questionnaire you can fill out. most of the questions I have no idea about!
I just filled in the boxes I could, skipped the rest.
What else do you do, I imagine it's already decided anyhow.

As the NRA info says, just fill in what you can. That said, I would want to do it anonymously as although a holder of legal firearms , I don't know how secure their data is kept. I will complete, but where questions such as capital cost to to A,B,or C, will advise that I don't know as a recreational user. Regarding number of muzzle loading rifle bullets sold, most make their own so will state this aswell. Regarding non lead air rifle pellets, I still have some promethios pellets from the 90's. Will penetrate a car door (if you can hit it) and through a sub 12 springer will put me into FAC territory.
Only time will tell what will come.

 

[enfieldspares]

I still have some promethios pellets from the 90's. Will penetrate a car door (if you can hit it)...

Yes. And with the plastic pluger thing that looked like a Bic pen top. Even if you were inside the car it was still not easily achievable. Like the chocolate fireguard and the bicycle seat belt the prometheus pellet was another invention that also was "effing useless"!

 

[zambezi]

It's not really a questionnaire you can fill out. most of the questions I have no idea about!

Yes very poor - probably purposely so.

Agreed. It must be possible to get importer/manufacturer/vendor data on ammo sales. Why feign asking the general public who cannot possibly have those numbers?

I suspect they do have the volumes. And the sums suggest a very low risk of environmental impact. Unlike the tonnage of foil wrapped around champagne bottles each year.

Rather, the questions are intended to deliver a lecture. Or at least the semblance of a rational argument against lead ammunition because [for example] "90%" lead recovery does not occur, etc.

Where is the empirical measurement of environmental impact? And where is the balance of any perceived impact vs humane pest control or sporting shooting. [the idea that a derrogation would exist for ISSF athletes is just smoke and mirrors: Where would new recruits to those ranks come from if the .22LR is rendered defunct because of a lead ban?]

 

[Trickyd66]

Yes. And with the plastic pluger thing that looked like a Bic pen top. Even if you were inside the car it was still not easily achievable. Like the chocolate fireguard and the bicycle seat belt the prometheus pellet was another invention that also was "effing useless"!

Yep.. not going to get rid though as I like them for their historic value might put a couple though my pcp to see what the muzzle energy is... theoretically less than a lead pellet. But then the issue will be discarded plastic

 

[Trickyd66]

Agreed. It must be possible to get importer/manufacturer/vendor data on ammo sales. Why feign asking the general public who cannot possibly have those numbers?

I suspect they do have the volumes. And the sums suggest a very low risk of environmental impact. Unlike the tonnage of foil wrapped around champagne bottles each year.

Rather, the questions are intended to deliver a lecture. Or at least the semblance of a rational argument against lead ammunition because [for example] "90%" lead recovery does not occur, etc.

Where is the empirical measurement of environmental impact? And where is the balance of any perceived impact vs humane pest control or sporting shooting. [the idea that a derrogation would exist for ISSF athletes is just smoke and mirrors: Where would new recruits to those ranks come from if the .22LR is rendered defunct because of a lead ban?]

What they need to know is how many people shoot what. If I shoot 50 clays with 28 gram cartridges that's 1.4 Kg of lead. Shoot 20 times a year (without practice taken into account) that's 28Kg. Multiply by the number of clay shooters in the UK and that's a fair lump of lead going where it doesn't come from.
Think you will find most small bore rifles would become obsolete, there are some options for lead free in the UK for LR, and HMR, but WMR (alough out of favour with many) there is diddly squat.

 

[25 Sharps]

View attachment 273197
Who wrote this form Handguns and rifles ,hands up which one of you has got all the handguns
Also a lot of those questions are very subjective as they ask for conclusions to be drawn and that is not true data but pure guess work.

I have 2 handguns.

Several of my club mates have them too of folk shoot LBP and LBR

 

[dave 67]

Alright I hold my hands up
I had forgotten about the LBP/LBR

 

[JTO]

The HSE has already made this country un-competitive on the global stage.

 

[25 Sharps]

What they need to know is how many people shoot what. If I shoot 50 clays with 28 gram cartridges that's 1.4 Kg of lead. Shoot 20 times a year (without practice taken into account) that's 28Kg. Multiply by the number of clay shooters in the UK and that's a fair lump of lead going where it doesn't come from.
Think you will find most small bore rifles would become obsolete, there are some options for lead free in the UK for LR, and HMR, but WMR (alough out of favour with many) there is diddly squat.

Where do you think lead comes from if not the ground?

 

[kennyc]

I have 2 handguns.

Several of my club mates have them too of folk shoot LBP and LBR

and some not so LBP

 

[Trickyd66]

Where do you think lead comes from if not the ground?

OK, yes it comes from underground, however contained in pockets in certain areas. Yes it is a naturally ocuring substance but so is Asbestos... because it is present in a contained form does not necessarily mean we have a right to deposit it where it doesn't belong?and for the record I stand to have some useless guns if the ban comes in, so just playing devil's advocate.

 

[SteveFisher]

Completed the consultation, it’s as poorly constructed as the HSE proposal, asking for information you think theyveiuld have obtained prior to writing the report.

They're never poorly constructed; they're constructed to support the outcomes they want to see.