BASC calls for independent regulatory body for firearms licensing

[Liveonce]

At least you are allowed into the supermarket and can join the queue. Imagine walking up to the checkout and being told, “sorry, there’s already a queue, can you leave the store”.

You can also pick which queue you go in and move to a different queue and self checkout now that would be a good idea if the police allowed for renewals a fast self checkout appointment system.

 

[finnbear270]

What makes you think the licencing depts would manage on a Grand?

 

[Len the dog]

What makes you think the licencing depts would manage on a Grand?

I don’t, I think that would be a notional minimum for such a service. In reality I think it would be considerably higher because we have no choice but to pay if we wish to continue.

 

[finnbear270]

Camel, Straw.

 

[Hornet 6]

The alternative being that they just accept what everyone tells them to be the absolute truth?





I am sorry you are giving up shooting, and do hope you find another pastime to enjoy.

The alternative was them asking your doctor, and doing it at their expense when needed.

Back to fishing and playing with old engines

Neil.

 

[Spix]

It's worth paying attention to what is actually happening.

This is from the Lincs FLD webpage:

Dishonest Medical Declarations.

This is an appeal from Firearms Licensing for all applicants to ensure that they are being truthful regarding their medical declaration. We are currently having to refuse people who have made dishonest declarations regarding their health. In many of these instances the condition identified would not of been a reason for refusal.

A dishonest declaration is a criminal offence and will result in the refusal whereas the existence of a condition may not necessarily result in a refusal.

Particular attention should be paid to the question on your application form “Have you ever been diagnosed with or treated for any of the relevant medical conditions…”

Everyone they have to refuse simply adds to the administrative burden.

 

[Len the dog]

You can also pick which queue you go in and move to a different queue and self checkout now that would be a good idea if the police allowed for renewals a fast self checkout appointment system.

When I applied for a second UK passport I had to surrender my existing passport with the application, this would have prevented me from working as I need it for travel, I had the choice of 3 options.

1. Send off a paper application that could take six weeks or more depending on whether it was the run up to holiday season.
2. Pay for a faster 7 day service.
3. Pay the premium rate for a face to face interview and receive both passports back within 4 hours, perfect timing to take my wife for lunch.

Imagine if we had these options for firearms licensing.

 

[Liveonce]

When I applied for a second UK passport I had to surrender my existing passport with the application, this would have prevented me from working as I need it for travel, I had the choice of 3 options.

1. Send off a paper application that could take six weeks or more depending on whether it was the run up to holiday season.
2. Pay for a faster 7 day service.
3. Pay the premium rate for a face to face interview and receive both passports back within 4 hours, perfect timing to take my wife for lunch.

Imagine if we had these options for firearms licensing.

Indeed, if the medical marker was working (and it is not) then the renewal should not be that arduous a process, as any reason for not renewing would already be known to the police, be that medical or criminal as they would have revoked during the life of the certificate. A zoom or such meeting to record that the applicants situation is unchanged from last time, still a member of a club or still have permission to shoot over land and then renew the certificate.
Back room staff could do a sanity check after issue, even the referees are really not adding anything to the renewal process, as most use a friend who also owns firearms.

 

[Franchi Matt]

Give the contract to Richard Branson

 

[timbrayford]

Meanwhile at BASC HQ
Board member 1: "I feel we haven't shafted the shooting community enough by not really fighting the HSE and it's lead thing so we need to come up with another idea"

Board member 2: "I know! Let's push to get licensing done through a separate body that'll charge shooters an absolute fortune for their piece of paper, between that cost and the cost of lead free ammo they'll be well and truly fu*ked"

Board member 3 probably got fired for suggesting we just have section 1 and 2 permits that we present at the gun shop to buy what we like without the need for variations thus reducing the load on the police

Why not scrub the S1 controls in favour of S2? The days of the 1920s when you could get machine guns, semi-autos and handguns on a FAC are all but gone, FLDs really need to start focussing on the good character/ fit to be entrusted stuff that they from time to time get so disastrously wrong and forget all about those expensive time wasting S1 restrictions that appear to serve no useful purpose.

 

[timbrayford]

This whole issue started many years back, this is nothing new, in my opinion.
For a very short period of time I was invited to sit on a county police panel to discuss the Firearms issue. This was prior to the pandemic, and I have not attended since. Now the on line applications are in place, which are not that user friendly in my opinion. It was also discussed in cutting all phone lines to the Firearms offices. Something I was also against. Many FA owners are not good with IT, vast numbers are of the non computer age and communication by phone over certain issues must be kept. I am happy to see that Kent has kept this in place. All be it on a limited time scale.

For a start all the FAC guidelines are sent down from Whitehall, and each Chief Constable can apply these as he/she see's fit. So there is the start of differences between each police force. The government insurers are also no doubt involved with any decisions or guidelines as well.
One failing that I have noticed over many years of being responsible for a large firearms collection is that whenever one applies for an FAC or SGC you are not requested to have public liability insurance. I find this staggering, as most, if not all European countries require this.

Also on completion of the whole FAC system being activated many years back, the software I was told did not include all the calibers. Thus causing huge issues when people renewed or requested an addition to their licence. We are now at a stage where most if not all constabularies are struggling to carry out firearms renewals or applications in a decent time.
Setting up an independent organisation is not to me the way forward. It would require a huge change in any organisation being responsible for personal data, and peoples ownership and medical records. Any new applicant is checked with Interpol, NCA etc. This takes time and money. With cutbacks this is proving unworkable for most police forces.
It would in my mind be far better for the amount paid for a licence to be increased to a level that gives a service we deserve. After all its not that much money for 5 years. It needs a grass root reboot, with rules laid down that all forces abide by, and appropriate training for FEO's.

I used to take a number of new FEO's around the collection I was responsible for, to give them some understanding of what they could expect to see when visiting a FA owner. Many did not have a clue what they were looking for. Things may have changed since then, but the more I hear, the less I am inclined to think that very little has changed.
Until the right person sorts all of this mess out, it will continue to grow and cause more issues. Another body to undertake this is NOT something I would personally agree with.

With regard to Europe places like Germany require you to be trained & qualified before you are let loose with a hunting rifle

 

[timbrayford]

It's worth paying attention to what is actually happening.

This is from the Lincs FLD webpage:

Dishonest Medical Declarations.

This is an appeal from Firearms Licensing for all applicants to ensure that they are being truthful regarding their medical declaration. We are currently having to refuse people who have made dishonest declarations regarding their health. In many of these instances the condition identified would not of been a reason for refusal.

A dishonest declaration is a criminal offence and will result in the refusal whereas the existence of a condition may not necessarily result in a refusal.

Particular attention should be paid to the question on your application form “Have you ever been diagnosed with or treated for any of the relevant medical conditions…”

Everyone they have to refuse simply adds to the administrative burden.

Next time I renew I'm looking forward to my GP guaranteeing my good health for the forthcoming 5 years!

 

[Len the dog]

With regard to Europe places like Germany require you to be trained & qualified before you are let loose with a hunting rifle

But you can drive two tonnes of metal as fast as it will possibly go on a busy motorway.

 

[Len the dog]

Next time I renew I'm looking forward to my GP guaranteeing my good health for the forthcoming 5 years!

Even better if we had 10 year licenses.

 

[Liveonce]

With regard to Europe places like Germany require you to be trained & qualified before you are let loose with a hunting rifle

Well let them keep it that way, but not go that way here.

 

[MAH]

We all know firearms licensing doesn't work and police forces, on the whole, are doing it poorly.

That's not my experience.
I'm in Cheshire, ive had certificates for 40yrs.
Variations are often turned around in a week or so.
Ok, the last renewal, took a few months, but it was at the end of the pandemic, and the new certs arrived before the expiry date.

For one, i am very happy with the current position.

I just can't see it getting any better, if its run by a private company the likes of those doing prison security. And I'd be concerned that they would put profits 1st and foremost.


M

 

[Stalker62]

Pay the premium rate for a face to face interview and receive both passports back within 4 hours, perfect timing to take my wife for lunch.

Imagine if we had these options for firearms licensing.

What, taking your wife out to lunch?

 

[Len the dog]

What, taking your wife out to lunch?

If you want to take her out for lunch then I hope you have deep pockets, she’s a classy girl and isn’t easily fobbed off.

 

[Stalker62]

If you want to take her out for lunch then I hope you have deep pockets, she’s a classy girl and isn’t easily fobbed off.

It's OK, I am a classy bloke.

Got all bases covered...

 

[finnbear270]

That's not my experience.
I'm in Cheshire, ive had certificates for 40yrs.
Variations are often turned around in a week or so.
Ok, the last renewal, took a few months, but it was at the end of the pandemic, and the new certs arrived before the expiry date.

For one, i am very happy with the current position.

I just can't see it getting any better, if its run by a private company the likes of those doing prison security. And I'd be concerned that they would put profits 1st and foremost.


M

You must have had Sharon on your Christmas card list