Marksmanship Standards - follow up - what should the course of fire be for testing a Scottish stalker?
- Thread starter jcampbellsmith
- Start date
Lie in a burn with water trickling in at your neck and out through your boots, wind blowing a hoolie straight in your face (ideally with an occasional spattering of ice) so you can't open your eyes, target awkwardly positioned away off to your right somewhere, and to be shot at without changing position. Distance 173.25 yards or metres, depending on length of stalker's stride.
Are you suggesting then that the test should be taken on a regular basis? Say every 2 years?
Regards
JCs
I agree up to a point, but as folk on here keep pointing out, not every stalker has done DSC 1 or done any kind of shooting test.
Regards
JCS
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
I only did my dsc1 last year and that was because a landowner insisted on it. I had shot a couple of hundred deer by that point so the shooting test wasn’t really a test as I had also spent much of the past 15 years shooting on paper (and other game) at distances up to 600 yds (not that distance on game) but have headshot rabbits at over 200m, so I know I can point a gun in the right direction and pull the trigger.
So mandating an annual shooting test would do nowt more than cost me money. But, I do agree that a basic marksmanship test when wanting to shoot game of any kind should be passed just to ensure the shooter is vaguely competent.
Ratwhiskers
Well-Known Member
Up until this year when various things conspired and caused me to call time, l had inherited Hubert Hetherington's old Border Stalkers Rifle Shoot, which was held three times a year just outside Penrith.
lt was kept as a casual affair, but it's intention as old HWH pointed out was to initiate young stalkers into the understandings of the then "Woodland Stalkers Certificate, then DSC1" range test, and to give older stalkers the occasion to catch up on a bit of practice.
l too have seen perfectly capable stalkers go into fits of frenzy over a small patch on a bit of paper, when l knew they were more than capable of good accuracy on any given day in the Woods or up on the Fells.
l believe such as the BDS who hold shoots in their respective regions go a long way to aiding in the ability to practice when possible, and such should be encouraged, however.... Making such into a mandatory requirement might be seen only to be a "Pocket Lining" exercise (which some have already stated in past threads), which may well lead to many giving up in frustration at a time when encouragement is actually needed.
lt was kept as a casual affair, but it's intention as old HWH pointed out was to initiate young stalkers into the understandings of the then "Woodland Stalkers Certificate, then DSC1" range test, and to give older stalkers the occasion to catch up on a bit of practice.
l too have seen perfectly capable stalkers go into fits of frenzy over a small patch on a bit of paper, when l knew they were more than capable of good accuracy on any given day in the Woods or up on the Fells.
l believe such as the BDS who hold shoots in their respective regions go a long way to aiding in the ability to practice when possible, and such should be encouraged, however.... Making such into a mandatory requirement might be seen only to be a "Pocket Lining" exercise (which some have already stated in past threads), which may well lead to many giving up in frustration at a time when encouragement is actually needed.
Testing, only what the estate and the stalker demand. Their ground, their deer, their responsibility, their call.
A good course of fire for practice ahead of a stalk that'd make for a decent range day for the recreational highland stalker?
Something along the lines of 300yds prone supported, 200yds prone unsupported, 200yds sitting/kneeling with stick, 100yds sitting/kneeling no stick, 100 yds standing off sticks, maybe 100yds standing unsupported. All at a life sized deer silhouette with a finely marked 6" kill zone in the 'correct' place for a H&L shot that the marker can see, but the stalker cannot. 5 rounds per position.
Based on my experiences helping with a shoot like this at my old range, I'm willing to bet that most stalkers would struggle, a lot (I've never seen anyone get 100% kills in the 4 years I was involved). But at least they'd know their limitations and might pass on that 300yd shot if it was presented.
A good course of fire for practice ahead of a stalk that'd make for a decent range day for the recreational highland stalker?
Something along the lines of 300yds prone supported, 200yds prone unsupported, 200yds sitting/kneeling with stick, 100yds sitting/kneeling no stick, 100 yds standing off sticks, maybe 100yds standing unsupported. All at a life sized deer silhouette with a finely marked 6" kill zone in the 'correct' place for a H&L shot that the marker can see, but the stalker cannot. 5 rounds per position.
Based on my experiences helping with a shoot like this at my old range, I'm willing to bet that most stalkers would struggle, a lot (I've never seen anyone get 100% kills in the 4 years I was involved). But at least they'd know their limitations and might pass on that 300yd shot if it was presented.
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
Any test that is encouraging people to think it's regularly okay to shoot roe deer at 300 yds is negating the concept of stalking.
As has already been said, shooting at paper is one thing, live animals completely different. A marksmanship test, if we think it's an important improvement going forward, should be accompanied by more training in ballistics, safety and fieldcraft.
As has already been said, shooting at paper is one thing, live animals completely different. A marksmanship test, if we think it's an important improvement going forward, should be accompanied by more training in ballistics, safety and fieldcraft.
The tests are not meant to be hard , many totally loose it with people watching , pressure to perform etc But on the other hand paper doesn't tell fibs !
Honest truth is " folks do not practice enough " or practice only from one or two stances carefully set up with all the time in the world .
I started on quarry , i then shot targets also , I took great target shooters stalking and watched real easy deer missed and the wrong beasts shot ( pure nerves ). So why do we put so much faith is testing like that ? The mentor system is the best but i think money and a quick fix approach got involved too fast ! Disagree if you must but explain why DSC2 is one beast now , when it was a MINIMUM of 3 and no deerpark shooting of fed beasts ?
Honest truth is " folks do not practice enough " or practice only from one or two stances carefully set up with all the time in the world .
I started on quarry , i then shot targets also , I took great target shooters stalking and watched real easy deer missed and the wrong beasts shot ( pure nerves ). So why do we put so much faith is testing like that ? The mentor system is the best but i think money and a quick fix approach got involved too fast ! Disagree if you must but explain why DSC2 is one beast now , when it was a MINIMUM of 3 and no deerpark shooting of fed beasts ?
Yet how did that collate to faced with a living breathing animal ? I have taken guys out who shot exteamly well on paper but where total wallys when it came to easy deer .
In fairness that thing switches , put a great stalker / hunter on paper and they can also go to bits for some reason
No just that people would be better if they understood their and their equipment's limitations
Yes practice makes perfect but where to practice? That is the question.
I now, for example, only have field and orchard permissions where setting up a range and shooting a magazine of cf practice shots is
not going to be allowed
Both landowners are ok with cf use to control pests/deer/boar but lots of rifle noise on either permission is a no no
Subsonic rf is a help for positioning/stance but not a great help learning the peculiarities/limitations of a cf rifle and ammunition.
Is there an answer?
Yes, find a local range, but one cleared for cf?.
Not many of those are there?
I now, for example, only have field and orchard permissions where setting up a range and shooting a magazine of cf practice shots is
not going to be allowed
Both landowners are ok with cf use to control pests/deer/boar but lots of rifle noise on either permission is a no no
Subsonic rf is a help for positioning/stance but not a great help learning the peculiarities/limitations of a cf rifle and ammunition.
Is there an answer?
Yes, find a local range, but one cleared for cf?.
Not many of those are there?
Similar threads
