SGA campaign for female deer season succeeds.

[LuckyEddie]

What is the difference between shooting pregnant does and corvids on the nest?
Surely if the government allowed one, they would have to allow the other?

To do otherwise would reduce deer to vermin.

 

[shakey jake]

What is the difference between shooting pregnant does and corvids on the nest?
Surely if the government allowed one, they would have to allow the other?

To do otherwise would reduce deer to vermin.

Where does vermin turn to game

 

[VSS]

Where does vermin turn to game

In the pages of a recipe book.

 

[Pete6.5]

It makes far more sense to shoot a hind in March than in November. Why are we so worried about a fawn inside a hind but not to bother by a fawn that might get offended before a long winter.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Why would you stab the feotos?

My 'colourful' description was more about conveying how those interested in wildlife welfare might choose to interpret the undertaking of evisceration involving a foetos.

Once a number of employees had raised a concern, and made a mental wellbeing case c/o their Union (SGA), it was clear to me their argument would win the day. A big part of this being Public perception that no doubt prooved a nightmare to 'manage' once the issues in play were spread far & wide.

K

 

[VSS]

Once a number of employees had raised a concern, and made a mental wellbeing case c/o their Union (SGA), it was clear to me their argument would win the day. A big part of this being Public perception that no doubt prooved a nightmare to 'manage' once the issues in play were spread far & wide.

K

I suspect a few dinosaurs who couldn't abide change to their long-standing traditions played what they thought was a clever card, straight into the hands of the antis.
As I said earlier, an own goal if ever there was.
And once the damage was done then yes, that argument was bound to win the day, despite having no basis in fact.

 

[Rake Aboot]

What is the difference between shooting pregnant does and corvids on the nest?
Surely if the government allowed one, they would have to allow the other?

To do otherwise would reduce deer to vermin.

Plenty cases for saying they are vermin.

 

[Sol]

I dont really see why killing an adult deer is acceptable but a feotos is bad?
Is it just well developed feotos that is troublesome?
Ive lost count of the number of muntjac does heavily pregnant ive killed. No clue on rabbits

This

Were shooting and slaughtering deer Its not really something that can be sugar coated regardless, the fetus Is dead as the mother dies at most it lives a tiny bit longer.
In most cases Its dead before your even at the hind or doe, Its very tough too even save full term livestock pointed out by many members of the site over the years It requires the animal being slaughtered and almost instantly a knife plunged in too save the lamb.

England has had longer seasons for years with no issues, were too small of an island for birthing rates to be that effected, but even then why not devide highlands, central and borders into seasons If people get that miffed over it? borders could get a few extra weeks of shooting without zero issues well fair wise.

Speaking as a women I feel like this is more so a projection more than anything, For I am In total support of season adjustments as logically the season is shorter than it should be with evidence that can back it up.

I do not speak for the highlands, but lower down I sure do.

 

[Utectok]

I’m not being brutal but in my opinion just about every roe doe I shoot either is pregnant (technically form June onwards) or has followers which I shoot. This is part of what deer control is. It’s not exactly fun gralloching any beast and taking wriggly foetus out can be a little weird but it’s all life and death and that’s the job we do. Personally I’d rather they allowed the change as it’s another tool in the box and not a requirement to shoot deer if you don’t want to…..in any case out of season licences and the new general licence allows this anyway which I use a lot.

 

[LuckyEddie]

Plenty cases for saying they are vermin.

Aye but once the gene is out the bottle who will put it back in?

 

[LuckyEddie]

One issue, which if we went down the road, would be that all remains would have to be buried or very carefully concealed.
Even then there would very likely be a chance that a dog would bring remains back to its owner.
Can you imagine the headlines!
Would it put us stalkers in a favourable light?

Remains of pregnant deer found dumped in bin bags in Ellon

It is believed the animals were illegally killed and dismembered in a poaching-related incident in Aberdeenshire.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Rake Aboot]

Maybe the public need to know that wildlife control doesn’t come with pink sugar coating.

 

[cooksey]

I personally thought it was a good ideal if the numbers truly need as much control as they say being able to shoot pregnant deer would go along at to aiding this. But if your a "deer manager" wanting to sell stalking kill pregnant deer is counter productive! But at the end of the day even if they had changed the law doesn't mean you have to extend your own season.

And I wonder if seeing a foetus is causing you that much mental anguish should you really be stalking, its all part and parcel of life. Bet the same stalkers wouldn't think twice about shooting a pregnant vixen with the thinking the cubs die instantly when the vixen does!

 

[Rake Aboot]

I personally thought it was a good ideal if the numbers truly need as much control as they say being able to shoot pregnant deer would go along at to aiding this. But if your a "deer manager" wanting to sell stalking kill pregnant deer is counter productive! But at the end of the day even if they had changed the law doesn't mean you have to extend your own season.

And I wonder if seeing a foetus is causing you that much mental anguish should you really be stalking, its all part and parcel of life. Bet the same stalkers wouldn't think twice about shooting a pregnant vixen with the thinking the cubs die instantly when the vixen does!

Part of the problem?

 

[finnbear270]

Guess this going to be another one of those pointless threads running to 40 pages:
Decision has been made.

 

[GlennUK]

If VSS can provide a supporting narrative that justifies ripping a well-developed feotos from a hind, and then casting it into the snow before plunging a knife into, please do and let us know how it goes down when putting it to other than those UK deerstalkers untroubled by such a reality.

K
those who are (or would be troubled) dont shoot does in the late stages of pregnancy i guess.

 

[Pete6.5]

If VSS can provide a supporting narrative that justifies ripping a well-developed feotos from a hind, and then casting it into the snow before plunging a knife into, please do and let us know how it goes down when putting it to other than those UK deerstalkers untroubled by such a reality.

K
those who are (or would be troubled) dont shoot does in the late stages of pregnancy i guess.

Why are you stabbing a dead fetus?

 

[GlennUK]

What is the difference between shooting pregnant does and corvids on the nest?
Surely if the government allowed one, they would have to allow the other?

To do otherwise would reduce deer to vermin.

Deer are 'vermin', they just happen to be ones we can eat, and a large part of society values because of their looks.

Vermin def : wild animals that are believed to be harmful to crops, farm animals, or game, or which carry disease.

I am not really sure there is any distinction in the context of killing animals that society generally refers to as vermin, e.g. rats/mice, and deer.

As hunters and stalkers we should treat all quarry with equal respect when it comes to killing them.

As to the matter at hand, I cannot see the deer management logic behind the decision not to change the dates, happy to see a reasoned argument from the deer management perspective.

 

[VSS]

Guess this going to be another one of those pointless threads running to 40 pages:
Decision has been made.

I'll change the subject then:

I hear there's a possibility that sound moderators may be deregulated in the near future.
That's a bit unsettling.
Maybe we should be starting a campaign to keep the legislation as it is currently?
Perhaps the SGA would care to lead on that, given their recent success in a similar scenario?

 

[Mungo]

If VSS can provide a supporting narrative that justifies ripping a well-developed feotos from a hind, and then casting it into the snow before plunging a knife into, please do and let us know how it goes down when putting it to other than those UK deerstalkers untroubled by such a reality.

K
those who are (or would be troubled) dont shoot does in the late stages of pregnancy i guess.

Death is death.

If you’re comfortable shooting something, then you’ve already shown you’re ok with killing things.

The foetus/calf will already be dead by the time you come to gralloch. For a long time, I didn’t think this was true. But I looked into it, and talked to vets and people experienced with culling late stage pregnant animals in various parts of the world. The foetus dies very quickly - to the extent that unless you are head shooting within a few yards and open up the female within 30 seconds or so, you will never find it alive.

The ‘stalker mental health’ argument against culling heavily pregnant hinds is an extremely weak argument. It’s actually a very dangerous precedent for field sports in general, because it establishes that causing death is stressful and something to be avoided. A canny opponent with even mediocre lawyers will see the opening: ‘well, if causing these deaths is too stressful, then really causing all deaths must be equally stressful, therefore all employers requiring their employees to cause death are subjecting them to unjustifiable stress’.

There may well be DEER welfare grounds for not extending the season. But to use stalker mental health as a main argument is palpable sophistry.