NickJ
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Or on the hill
Is the sun setting on expensive glass?
- Thread starter Roonster
- Start date
neillfrbs
Well-Known Member
I think glass has its place ,but i don't really use my top end Zeiss anymore ,will probably use it again on the roe bucks early morning ,but out at last light you just cant beat digital ,and have the option to stay out later and go over to nv for foxes ect . i think the future will be a digital scope with day time ,nv and thermal all in one unit .sales of top end glass most certainly is taking a proper bashing from the Chinese nv units .
I'm unconvinced:
K
K
Just my tuppence...........
Looking at my cull records since beginning of December, both of my Swaro rifles have not ventured out of the cabinet - those that have include an Alpex 4k LRF (.270) and a Thermion XP50 (.243) accounting for 25 animals between them. When longer days appear, that will probably change but I won't be getting rid of my dS or Z6i any time soon! The Digital/Thermals are tools - I even have a Thermion on my air rifle - for me, it's about being productive when you need to be. I like @Tazz 's approach but I have read some horror story about incompatibilities and limitations of the thermal add-on - I will probably end up going down that route too when technology stabilises a little further.
Looking at my cull records since beginning of December, both of my Swaro rifles have not ventured out of the cabinet - those that have include an Alpex 4k LRF (.270) and a Thermion XP50 (.243) accounting for 25 animals between them. When longer days appear, that will probably change but I won't be getting rid of my dS or Z6i any time soon! The Digital/Thermals are tools - I even have a Thermion on my air rifle - for me, it's about being productive when you need to be. I like @Tazz 's approach but I have read some horror story about incompatibilities and limitations of the thermal add-on - I will probably end up going down that route too when technology stabilises a little further.
Absolutely. Hill stalking, targets, daytime work are still all the domain of glass scopes so there’ll always be a market-albeit out and out stalkers with little interest in other disciplines could easily just go digital, if they were running one stalking setup.
The next iteration of digital might well encompass all though!
Sol
Well-Known Member
Coming from a newbie that uses high end glass, I think I will trade for digital with my own when I apply.
I dont think I'd want anything digital If I were doing true hill stalking, but for almost two grand cheaper.... Its very hard to beat honestly.
It used to be spend more on the optics than the rifle, but with digital I may as well find a rifle I enjoy and wish to keep long term.
I dont think I'd want anything digital If I were doing true hill stalking, but for almost two grand cheaper.... Its very hard to beat honestly.
It used to be spend more on the optics than the rifle, but with digital I may as well find a rifle I enjoy and wish to keep long term.
You read “mixed” reports on thermal front end add ons. IMHO one of the key elements to ensuring zero and repeatability is the quality of the mounting of the front add on, the system that comes with the Krypton has been improved on the MK2 I have the MK1 and using the Smartclip adaptor means I have never had an issue with holding zero it’s a very well engineered and you order the exact size your scope lens is no spacers required a very neat solution
Utectok
Well-Known Member
I dunno I just bought an Alpex and stuck it on a rifle but I still seem to grab the old Schmidt and bender rifle…. Ok last light it’s tricky and I would definitely shoot more deer with the alpex but then again does it matter? I’m mostly happy to call it a day if it’s too dark and I shoot a lot of deer anyway so I’m not desperate. Mind you if there’s a lot of pressure on newly planted ground I would shoot on for 1/2 an hour with the alpex still leaves all the fun of staggering around clearfell in the dark when you do shoot something 
Yup - the number of missed evening meals and scowls from SWIMBO where I return later than advertised courtesy of the productivity of digital at last light has increased dramatically since exploiting these devices. Telling that most of my carcass pictures are in darkness..............I dunno I just bought an Alpex and stuck it on a rifle but I still seem to grab the old Schmidt and bender rifle…. Ok last light it’s tricky and I would definitely shoot more deer with the alpex but then again does it matter? I’m mostly happy to call it a day if it’s too dark and I shoot a lot of deer anyway so I’m not desperate. Mind you if there’s a lot of pressure on newly planted ground I would shoot on for 1/2 an hour with the alpex still leaves all the fun of staggering around clearfell in the dark when you do shoot something
Yes I think the adapter is the key to a front add on reliability. The dedicated sized smartclip and Rusan adapters are lightweight and low profile, so far the Smartclip has been reliable and repeatable.
I do run a strip of white insulation tape across the adapter/objective bell, slice it (gently) at the join with a sharp pointed craft knife and use it for alignment.
I’ve used both but so far every night vision scope I’ve used somehow looses zero for no reason. Wraith and Alpex both have done this. Aimed for a fox and missed so tried again and missed. Checked zero on range and was like factory reset zero as in not even on paper. But the up and down numbers hadn’t changed. I did a reset and zeroed from sctratch again. Since then I simply don’t trust them. I think we should all base our opinion on experience rather than hearsay. I love my S&B Klassik and trust it 100% to hold zero. Yes will still check if it’s taken a knock but at least I’m aware of that.
Saying that for foxing I love a cheap Pard add on the rear as you can trust the glass infront.
Saying that for foxing I love a cheap Pard add on the rear as you can trust the glass infront.
I can remember my joy at buying my first sealed for life 12v motorbike battery. (no more Barber coats, or skin, eaten away by battery acid). The smug feeling when I'd fashioned a battery shoulder harness out of old seat belts, with the lap buckle as a fastener. These together with my car spot light, later to be a 1,000,000 candle power lamp, transformed my lamping with dogs and shotgun.Couldn’t have put it better myself sir!
The rate of change in technology is astounding and I do wonder where it will end.
Saying all that I would just love to see and hear the response of one of the new lads when asked to carry a car battery to the top of a far-off hill….
I can't imagine my grandkids walking up hill and down, carrying several lbs of kit for a few Rabbits and the odd fox.
Ahhh, the good old days.
buckfever
Well-Known Member
Having the same problem with my alpex. In the last 6 nonth have lost zero twice both times has moved 6 inch high at 100 yards. Numbers haven't changed and everything tight. Have just updated software on scope as been told this could be the problem . Time will tell but starting to loose faith in it
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
At a few hunting/trade shows where the German Zeiss reps were here in Germany they struck me as the most arrogant a=holes I have yet met here in Germany who would ignore you even though you are standing next to them obviously waiting to ask a question bit like in a Rolls Royce saleroom. Humble pie will I hope catch them up one day but I am not holding my breath.
S@B are pricing themselves out of the market. Their top end PM scopes have all but doubled in price in the last 5 years and current prices are silly.
I suspect many users dont actually use/need them for what they shoot both target or quarry.
I still consider Delta scopes to be nigh on the best value scopes on the market.
Most of my shooting is at night so NV only.
D
I suspect many users dont actually use/need them for what they shoot both target or quarry.
I still consider Delta scopes to be nigh on the best value scopes on the market.
Most of my shooting is at night so NV only.
D
High-end glass has been a game of vastly diminishing returns for many years now. I replaced all my Swaros and PMIIs with what many would consider to be low-to-mid-range glass years ago. I did a lot of comparative tests whilst coming to those decisions, and came to the conclusion that I either couldn't see any difference, or where I could see a difference it was so small that it didn't justify the difference in value.
Digital scoping brings with it the FMCG market dynamics of other digital devices like smartphones & tablets – the 4K Alpex LRF (that everybody is creaming their spinach over today) will be worth pennies on the pound the second that the 5K Alpex is announced. This is marketing pure & simple and it speaks to the very real human phenomenon that is FOMO.
As hard as it is to believe today, there will come a day when that 4K Alpex LRF won't be considered good enough to stir paint with! The trick, as always with these things, is to be content to live in the area just behind the bleeding edge. Be happy to buy a 4K after the 5K is announced, and you'll enjoy the same performance that others have before you, for 25% of the outlay. But of course being humans we see the new thing and from that point forward it's all we want.
The pace at which screen and sensor technologies is evolving is staggering. We already have screens like the Retina Displays on iPhones which are able to provide more detail than the human brain can process, and at that point we can't tell if we are looking at a screen or not. At some point the screens and sensors in digital scopes will reach the same point, and we simply won't be able to tell the difference between a digital scope with a screen and high-end glass. And as HIKMicro have demonstrated with the 4K Alpex, they're able to deliver that level of performance at a price point much lower than anyone could've imagined.
At this point, the only thing that can stifle such progress is if governments continue to limit the resolution of the sensors that can be put into civilian hands.
Plus digital screens have the benefit of being able to display disturbed reticles without compromising the overall light transmission. The Alpex 4K LRF delivers the very result that the SIG BDX system and the Swarovski dS struggled to deliver beforehand. Compare an Alpex 4K LRF to a Swarovski dS at dusk and the only thing left to figure out is just how far you can physically throw that bloody Swaro dS into the woods!
There are of course those who will continue to see value in the old ways of doing things. I have a friend, who is a man of considerable means, who will take the sort of money that we might spend on a car and drop it on a turntable so that he can enjoy his vinyl record collection. It makes him happy and brings him hours of enjoyment. So I suspect that there will always be a market for those that enjoy oiled exhibition grade Turkish walnut and deep bluing, and they will continue to seek out 1" Pecar scopes etc., but that market will become vanishingly small, whilst the rest of us use entry level glass or digital scopes mounted on polymer-stocked rifles.
Digital scoping brings with it the FMCG market dynamics of other digital devices like smartphones & tablets – the 4K Alpex LRF (that everybody is creaming their spinach over today) will be worth pennies on the pound the second that the 5K Alpex is announced. This is marketing pure & simple and it speaks to the very real human phenomenon that is FOMO.
As hard as it is to believe today, there will come a day when that 4K Alpex LRF won't be considered good enough to stir paint with! The trick, as always with these things, is to be content to live in the area just behind the bleeding edge. Be happy to buy a 4K after the 5K is announced, and you'll enjoy the same performance that others have before you, for 25% of the outlay. But of course being humans we see the new thing and from that point forward it's all we want.
The pace at which screen and sensor technologies is evolving is staggering. We already have screens like the Retina Displays on iPhones which are able to provide more detail than the human brain can process, and at that point we can't tell if we are looking at a screen or not. At some point the screens and sensors in digital scopes will reach the same point, and we simply won't be able to tell the difference between a digital scope with a screen and high-end glass. And as HIKMicro have demonstrated with the 4K Alpex, they're able to deliver that level of performance at a price point much lower than anyone could've imagined.
At this point, the only thing that can stifle such progress is if governments continue to limit the resolution of the sensors that can be put into civilian hands.
Plus digital screens have the benefit of being able to display disturbed reticles without compromising the overall light transmission. The Alpex 4K LRF delivers the very result that the SIG BDX system and the Swarovski dS struggled to deliver beforehand. Compare an Alpex 4K LRF to a Swarovski dS at dusk and the only thing left to figure out is just how far you can physically throw that bloody Swaro dS into the woods!
There are of course those who will continue to see value in the old ways of doing things. I have a friend, who is a man of considerable means, who will take the sort of money that we might spend on a car and drop it on a turntable so that he can enjoy his vinyl record collection. It makes him happy and brings him hours of enjoyment. So I suspect that there will always be a market for those that enjoy oiled exhibition grade Turkish walnut and deep bluing, and they will continue to seek out 1" Pecar scopes etc., but that market will become vanishingly small, whilst the rest of us use entry level glass or digital scopes mounted on polymer-stocked rifles.
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Deermanagement
Well-Known Member
As I’ve commented in previous posts, digital just leads to illegal, not with all, but even with some law abiding folk 
I’m sure there’s many that will say “they’ll only go to the last minute”, cos of course they are law abiding, but they are the same guys that will go home and happily drive at 50 in a 40 zone or similar, because there’s nobody around and the roads are clear, it’ll do no harm
I’m sure there’s many that will say “they’ll only go to the last minute”, cos of course they are law abiding, but they are the same guys that will go home and happily drive at 50 in a 40 zone or similar, because there’s nobody around and the roads are clear, it’ll do no harm
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