Collimeter vs laser bore sight for checking zero

[Heym SR20]

Gentlemen,

Your views please - had an issue recently with rifle loosing zero after it took a knock. Am thinking of getting a collimeter so that I can check zero before I go out stalking. Appreciate a round down the range is the best way, but often this is not practical to do, as I live i town and driving to my stalking grounds, and don't want to let a shot off just to test things as will spook all the deer.

I have used a collimeter and seems like a useful tool for a) helping with initial zero, but then using as a reference to check that the rifle is still zeroed after travelling, taking a knock, or even with a detacheable scope, just to confrim things have gone back correctly.

There also laser bore sighters - are these any good, or as accurate as a collimeter - strikes me that they are cheap, useful for getting onto a piece of paper, but not much more.

Many thanks

 

[Caberhill]

Gentlemen,

Your views please - had an issue recently with rifle loosing zero after it took a knock. Am thinking of getting a collimeter so that I can check zero before I go out stalking. Appreciate a round down the range is the best way, but often this is not practical to do, as I live i town and driving to my stalking grounds, and don't want to let a shot off just to test things as will spook all the deer.

I have used a collimeter and seems like a useful tool for a) helping with initial zero, but then using as a reference to check that the rifle is still zeroed after travelling, taking a knock, or even with a detacheable scope, just to confrim things have gone back correctly.

There also laser bore sighters - are these any good, or as accurate as a collimeter - strikes me that they are cheap, useful for getting onto a piece of paper, but not much more.

Many thanks

I've never used a laser bore sight but I'd go with a collimeter. We used to use them on the AW50F back in the day (i'm not actually that old), since they only had something like 30 of these rifles in service we had to share so every one had to remember were they where on the collimeter. I still remember mine D11, but I also remember which side of the line it ever so slightly lay on. We never had any issues even if it was 6 months between being on the range.

How hard a knock did it take and how much was it out by? either way it's certainly not a bad idea and is one I had considered.

 

[sikadog]

You should never shoot at any living thing until you are possitive laser bore sighters and collimeters only give you a rough idea where the shot is going to hit ( no recoil no barrel ossilation no man on the trigger) I did a 243 with a collimeter a while ago and it was shooting a foot high and 2 inches to the right.

Dont shoot at a deer until you have test fired it.

 

[RED-DOT]

Look down the bore with the bolt removed and match the centre of aim with the centre of the scope image... i have used both collminator and laser bore sighters and they are miles out.

 

[bobthedug]

I have used a laser boresighter but in my experience it was only good for checking that scope was still ok. I had to use the same target which was at 40yds. With my scope zeroed at 100yds and shooting absolutely spot on, I has the 40yd target at the house and if my crosshairs was on the bull the boresighter was several inches off the bull. I could check that it was always on the same "off bull" mark.
Only good I suppose though as my rifle was used at home and not transported or subject to getting a knock.

 

[richard griffith]

tried both and as has been said already only give you a ballpark position regarding zero.I'm afraid that there is only one way, especially if you intend to shoot any quarry, and that is back to the range.a.t.b.Richard

 

[HME]

Out of the hundreds of "zeroed" with a bore sighter of some sort rifles I've had at the range there hasn't been one that I would have risked a shot at an animal with. Only today I had a collimator zeroed rifle at the range, it was shooting 40cm right and 10cm low, as an aside the dealer had attached a £1000 Kahles scope to a new Browning rifle with air rifle rings worth £20, the windage adjustment ran out after 3 clicks! I turned the mounts around, zeroed it and told him to take it back to the dealer and demand some proper rings, apologies, ranting about dealers. Don't rely on gadgets, go to the range.

HME

 

[British Shooting Services]

I can see what Heym is trying to say. If he re zero's his rifle on the range and then uses a colminator and makes a record of where on the grid the cross hairs are, then if the rifle takes a knock later, he can fit the colminator and check if the cross hairs are still in the same position on the grid. If not the rifle has lost zero.

Now, this is not the way I like to do things, but I can see his thinking. My way of thinking is that if for any reason you doubt the accuracy of the rifle, get down the range and put a few off. Even if it turns out to be still on, it will restore your confidence and make sure you can put a round in the right place.

Ade

 

[Thar]

Look down the bore with the bolt removed and match the centre of aim with the centre of the scope image... i have used both collminator and laser bore sighters and they are miles out.

This is absolutely my experience, waste of money even for checking a zero they are not accurate enough, get you on the paper at 50 yards but bore sighting will do that.

If you have knock your scope so it has moved its zero I would look towards new mounts or better scope, I dropped a rifle with S&B scope on from the top of a bunk bed accidently it landed on the scope yet zero never moved. I had a Swarvo on a Tikka for 8 years and the zero never moved once.

ATB

Tahr

 

[Muir]

I see some of guys come into the local trading post who buy a rifle/scope set up and ask the clerk mounting the scope to "zero it at 200 yards",or some similar request. Even after being told that the bore-sighting is just a rough set to get them on paper up close, they will insist that it's "probably good enough" for deer. It has gotten so prevalent that they now no longer offer the service unless they know the shooter, and know they will do the requisite range work afterwards.

In short, there is no substitute for putting the rifle on paper.~Muir

 

[Caberhill]

Your right muir, but I think the OP was after something to reassure him that the rifle was still shooting straight. A confidence boost, not a method for zeroing a rifle.

 

[Heym SR20]

Your right muir, but I think the OP was after something to reassure him that the rifle was still shooting straight. A confidence boost, not a method for zeroing a rifle.

Thanks for all comments - I am not looking at it as method of zeroing - that is done on the target. I am looking at it as a guide to whether it is still straight and need to go to the target. I had a major loss of zero (started shooting 7 inches to the right) on a rifle that has shot to the same point of aim for the last ten years. A Meopta Scope with fixed apel mounts so no lack of quality. Either it had take a knock or the scope has failed. Got it back on target and it is grouping well, but it got me thinking.

 

[User00003]

Look down the bore with the bolt removed and match the centre of aim with the centre of the scope image... i have used both collminator and laser bore sighters and they are miles out.

+1 - used laser bore sighter and it was a joke, nowhere near the POI.

control-shot is the ONLY way to go despite the obvious inconvenience

 

[David T]

No substitute for paper punching. Any estate I have been on has always had a target for the stalker to check your ability and for you to check your zero. No hassle, takes no time and gives you the Colgate ring of confidence in your kit before you set out.

 

[Heugal]

always safer on a target first no matter how inconvenient or impractical that might be.

atb Heugal

 

[Sharpie]

I disagree with the negative comments.

A collimator is an excellent tool for checking the 'scope has not moved or failed between outings, after a knock, or after an unexplained miss.

After you have zeroed the rifle on paper at your preferred range, make a note of the position on the collimator grid. Then whenever you take the rifle out, do a quick check with the collimator.

If the 'scope is still showing the same position on the collimator grid then it is almost certain that the optical zero has not shifted.

But if possible you should still take a test shot, because other things can still shift the zero e.g. moderator on/off/loose, looser or tighter stock bolts, change of ammunition batch, temperature effect on powder etc. etc.

If however the collimator shows a different reading then either the scope has shifted, or the collimator has moved, or both. Most likely you have not inserted the collimator into the barrel correctly, or a bit of dirt has shifted the pin slightly. Check and retry. If its still out, you must test on a target.

The collimator is also a useful tool for many other reasons. Here are just a few:

• Adjust scope to get first shot somewhere on paper. Easier than boresighting for small calibres, or when you can't squint up the bore, e.g. semiautos, air rifles etc. You may find boresight isn't quite the same as centre of grid, but once you know the offset its usually repeatable between rifles.
• Find out limits of adjustment of turrets i.e. wind turrets until reticle stops moving against collimator grid and note position.
• Test repeatability of adjustments by "boxing" the grid and checking return to zero.
• Test for smoothness of adjustment of turrets, detect stickiness, or when tapping the turret after adjustment causes shifts, or when turret has to be first backed off, then wound back to be repeatable.
• Test for moving zero when altering zoom or parallax.
• Test for moving zero when temperature changes e.g. indoors versus outdoors.
• Find zoom setting when mildots are true against grid.
• Check calibration of turret scales is true.
• Centralise scope in adjustable mounts. Find limits of turret adjustment then set to halfway point. Then adjust mounts to bring zero back to the right position on the grid.
• Set up vertical mount adjustment to maximise turret elevation adjustment for long range shooting. Same as above, but set vertical turret so it is nearly at lowest point at close range zero.
• Check return to zero when using scopes in take-off mounts, and/or switch barrel rifles.
• Swap scopes around several rifles and minimise time/ammo to re-zero by noting collimator grid settings for each rifle.

AFAIK most collimators seem to be the same design, and look as if they come from the same factory, varying only in price, not quality. £40 will buy one. Be aware some large diameter scopes in high mounts don't line up very well with the collimator and can make it difficult to see the grid, but I've always managed to use it.

I've also tried laser boresighters that fit in the breech and in the muzzle, and neither seemed of any practical use to me, whereas the optical collimator gives a repeatable quantitative measurement IME.

 

[hangfire]

I'm afraid I agree withThar, I've used both, and " it will get you on the paper " is about right, I've had a Leupold with Redfield mounts fitted on a sauer for about 18 years, the rifle has traveled thousands of miles, been knocked and abused and the zero has never moved 1mm

 

[kennyc]

I'm thinking of one just to get me on the paper with, you try bore sighting a Steyr AUG!