.243 cal and lead ban wording

[Shootgun]

Maybe my 'learned' ballistics man wasn't as 'learned' as he thought he was.
What were they? I don't home load and can't find any copper of that weight ready made.

Nosler

 

[Shootgun]

Mine shoots 80-85gr copper fine, 90gr won't stabilise.

65g works best for me

 

[Tim.243]

You are right there is always alternatives. But that said, if a customer says to me you can't use galvanised steel in here because of whatever reason. Then I have to find a suitable alternative that doesn't have galvanised steel in it.

That is my point, if they banned galvanising then the other plating process would be and alternative but not as effective on large jobs for cost or last as long

There are far more toxic things used/dumped on this planet by the hundreds of tons each day than a few deer each day shot with lead.

 

[nun_hunter]

The 243 needed the right bullet with lead, having witnessed a 80 lead grallocking an animal.

Plenty on here seem happy with non-lead in 243, and the Scottish reduction to 80g may help.

Lets see the legislation that gets enacted, them some manufacturers might discover the needs for a new calibre, call it the 6.18 Creedmore and it might be a winner?

There isn't really any point in a new calibre that is a bit smaller than .243 to allow lead use as there are plenty of .22 cals available that can match the performance of a .243 (as stated above the 68grain from a 22-250). The one thing any calibre smaller than a .243 can't do is be deer legal for all UK deer. If you're then looking at something to work well on all deer you probably don't want anything smaller than a .243 and there are more than enough good non lead bullets in a range of calibres available.

 

[Stevie/P]

There are far more toxic things used/dumped on this planet by the hundreds of tons each day than a few deer each day shot with lead

Makes no difference how the government and the orgs dress it up lead is toxic we all know that it’s about attacking shooting in general and I agree with you there’s much my dangerous thing entertaining the environment every day for industry water company and the likes.
Lead in shooting is ending the discussion has been made unless we get a u turn unlikely to happen.

 

[Tim.243]

There isn't really any point in a new calibre that is a bit smaller than .243 to allow lead use as there are plenty of .22 cals available that can match the performance of a .243 (as stated above the 68grain from a 22-250). The one thing any calibre smaller than a .243 can't do is be deer legal for all UK deer. If you're then looking at something to work well on all deer you probably don't want anything smaller than a .243 and there are more than enough good non lead bullets in a range of calibres available.

I take on Reds/Fallow with my .243 95gn load in lead so in time it will be the .270 in copper and a .223 for muntjac.
As of now that load puts all on the deck come the day I will see more Fallow when out with the .223.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Makes no difference how the government and the orgs dress it up lead is toxic we all know that it’s about attacking shooting in general and I agree with you there’s much my dangerous thing entertaining the environment every day for industry water company and the likes.
Lead in shooting is ending the discussion has been made unless we get a u turn unlikely to happen.

There's enough places that have already changed their minds on the ban across Europe.

 

[Stevie/P]

There's enough places that have already changed their minds on the ban across Europe.

We live in hope

 

[hendrix's rifle]

The 243 needed the right bullet with lead, having witnessed a 80 lead grallocking an animal.

Plenty on here seem happy with non-lead in 243, and the Scottish reduction to 80g may help.

Lets see the legislation that gets enacted, them some manufacturers might discover the needs for a new calibre, call it the 6.18 Creedmore and it might be a winner?

They work for a select few who aren't shooting deer past 200 yards. I suspect most lead free factory loads dont even meet the minimum requirements for large deer in england and wales, especially when you add in a 20 inch barrel. The 243 is already dropping energy quickly and the brick shaped lead free bullets dont assist in the retention of energy whatsoever. For deer control, I can see the 243 coming to an end which is extremely unfortunate. My 243 is out of the cabinet 80 percent of the time from roe to red.

 

[VSS]

There's enough places that have already changed their minds on the ban across Europe.

But the British mentality is simple to ban things, not reverse bans.
Brits have travelled around the world banning things for centuries, and with the collapse of colonialism it carries on on home ground.
Regardless of orientation, the desire of every British political party when it comes to power is to ban things right, left and centre.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

But the British mentality is simple to ban things, not reverse bans.
Brits have travelled around the world banning things for centuries, and with the collapse of colonialism it carries on on home ground.
Regardless of orientation, the desire of every British political party when it comes to power is to ban things right, left and centre.

Let's hope common sense prevails ey

 

[Liveonce]

Let's hope common sense prevails ey

common sense is not very common these days

 

[Twodogs]

They work for a select few who aren't shooting deer past 200 yards. I suspect most lead free factory loads dont even meet the minimum requirements for large deer in england and wales, especially when you add in a 20 inch barrel. The 243 is already dropping energy quickly and the brick shaped lead free bullets dont assist in the retention of energy whatsoever. For deer control, I can see the 243 coming to an end which is extremely unfortunate. My 243 is out of the cabinet 80 percent of the time from roe to red.

Not all bullets are created equal. YewTree Fieldsporys brick shaped offering in 6mm (80.1 grains).

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Not all bullets are created equal. YewTree Fieldsporys brick shaped offering in 6mm (80.1 grains).

View attachment 430850

I've already got some. One manufacturer out of how many? I also use the 114g TLR however they also come with their own issues.

Closer ranges and you're likely ripping petals off and sending them through the gut. Ive had it happen countless times now where the petal with go through the diaphragm and burst the green. Ive had it with 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm TLR's over a range of different shots and shot placements. I want to say i started using them maybe 3 or 4 years ago on and off? They are the only lead free bullets I have faith in to expand out beyond 400 yards.

Whilst they are a quality bullet, they're expensive for anything other than deer (no more gong bashing after a mornings stalk) and they are still a ways off my current sierra gamechangers. They work at close range, long range and everything in-between. They dont cause excessive damage close up, they dont shed petals in to guts and the rest of it along with being cheap enough for a range day.

Its probably worth noting i have probably taken over 50 deer from muntjac to reds with the tlr from 30 yards to 400 yards so I do feel somewhat qualified to give the review as above. Its not like ive shot one deer and called it quits.

 

[Merlyn]

you can usually set the bullet deeper to over come jamming into the rifle ( depends on the gun in question and which bullet ) . You can also increase a chamber length . Long / heavy 243 ammo has been used in comps for a long time

My 'learned' man, never mentioned any of that to me. Thanks.

 

[timbrayford]

I've already got some. One manufacturer out of how many? I also use the 114g TLR however they also come with their own issues.

Closer ranges and you're likely ripping petals off and sending them through the gut. Ive had it happen countless times now where the petal with go through the diaphragm and burst the green. Ive had it with 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm TLR's over a range of different shots and shot placements. I want to say i started using them maybe 3 or 4 years ago on and off? They are the only lead free bullets I have faith in to expand out beyond 400 yards.

Whilst they are a quality bullet, they're expensive for anything other than deer (no more gong bashing after a mornings stalk) and they are still a ways off my current sierra gamechangers. They work at close range, long range and everything in-between. They dont cause excessive damage close up, they dont shed petals in to guts and the rest of it along with being cheap enough for a range day.

Its probably worth noting i have probably taken over 50 deer from muntjac to reds with the tlr from 30 yards to 400 yards so I do feel somewhat qualified to give the review as above. Its not like ive shot one deer and called it quits.

I'm happy to use Barnes ttsx 80 gr in 243 but just because I like them I can see no good reason why my choices should be forced upon everyone else by law

 

[Stevie/P]

Not too mention that it’s 100 grn bullets in England / wales for Roe Red Fallow Sika anything less is not legal.
We can only hope common sense prevail and follow Scotland in reducing it to 80 grn but knowing are lot that’s going to be very unlikely.

 

[BryanDC]

That is my point, if they banned galvanising then the other plating process would be and alternative but not as effective on large jobs for cost or last as long

There are far more toxic things used/dumped on this planet by the hundreds of tons each day than a few deer each day shot with lead.

Sorry Tim, I forgot to answer you. Yes one option could be an alternative coating but another could be an alternative material. In fact this is usually the way it goes in practice.

I learned something interesting today. There have been comments about galvanised coatings containing lead but it is actually only present in modern coatings as trace impurity in the zinc at a level of about 30ppm 0.003%

Thats an awful lot lower than some people have been insinuating.

 

[timbrayford]

Sorry Tim, I forgot to answer you. Yes one option could be an alternative coating but another could be an alternative material. In fact this is usually the way it goes in practice.

I learned something interesting today. There have been comments about galvanised coatings containing lead but it is actually only present in modern coatings as trace impurity in the zinc at a level of about 30ppm 0.003%

Thats an awful lot lower than some people have been insinuating.

Actually you've touched on an issue that I raised with the HSE.
I asked if plated shotgun shot was causing toxicity issues, it transpired that the matter has never been studied and for whatever reason they failed to respond to my enquiry, neither did it feature in their deliberations.
Surely if you are going to make a lawful activity unlawful due diligence needs to be shown by the public bodies responsible?

 

[BryanDC]

Actually you've touched on an issue that I raised with the HSE.
I asked if plated shotgun shot was causing toxicity issues, it transpired that the matter has never been studied and for whatever reason they failed to respond to my enquiry, neither did it feature in their deliberations.
Surely if you are going to make a lawful activity unlawful due diligence needs to be shown by the public bodies responsible?

What are they plated with? Copper as some .22 rimfire or is it something else?