The solid copper forum.

[Nimrod1960]

The lead debate is done to death, the blob has ruled or is about to. So lets start looking forward and share experiences of transitioning , to non lead that is.

I have started using Hornady 80g CX in my .243 Shultz and Larsen 1:10 twist 24” .
Good groups up to 200m and no problems so far from Muntys to Sika hinds.
So far less carcass damage with chest shots compared to Sako 100g GH.

I have put in for a .308 but mainly to get something with a shorter barrel for the woods. My theory being what I might lose in velocity from shorter barrel will be offset by mass of bullet to produce a decent killing energy and group at up to 250m.

 

[Tim.243]

The lead debate is done to death, the blob has ruled or is about to. So lets start looking forward and share experiences of transitioning , to non lead that is.

I have started using Hornady 80g CX in my .243 Shultz and Larsen 1:10 twist 24” .
Good groups up to 200m and no problems so far from Muntys to Sika hinds.
So far less carcass damage with chest shots compared to Sako 100g GH.

I have put in for a .308 but mainly to get something with a shorter barrel for the woods. My theory being what I might lose in velocity from shorter barrel will be offset by mass of bullet to produce a decent killing energy and group at up to 250m.

What is copper?

 

[Nimrod1960]

Not a thread for going over the old arguments re lead bans, BASC, voluntary transitions, personal vitriol etc.

 

[timbrayford]

I'm highly impressed by my own Barnes ttsx home loads, but to be clear I don't see why my choices should be forced on anyone else. As for steel shot that belongs where the sun doesn't shine on its supporters.

 

[Nimrod1960]

What is copper?

Sorry did I use an incorrect term ?

Copper is a soft, malleable, and ductile transition metal with the symbol Cu and atomic number 29. It's the 29th element on the periodic table and has an atomic weight of 63.55. Copper is a major industrial metal due to its high conductivity, resistance to corrosion, and malleability. It's also an essential nutrient for humans, plants, and animals. Properties: Copper is fire resistant, durable, and can be recycled infinitely without losing quality

 

[Nimrod1960]

Copper is also a major contributor to the fact that we do not speak French as our day to day language.

But how and why ?

 

[Merlyn]

Wapity 85gn copper work well in my Tikka Lite .243 8" twist. They seem to be a bit difficult to get hold of on occasions. In my very light rifle, low recoil and they do the business on muntjac and roebucks. Haven't tried them on the larger stuff yet.
I tried to set up a topic, like yours, to get people actually cooperating on what non lead ammo works in which rifle a couple of weeks ago, but to no avail. All the old arguments resurfaced, with one guy quoting firearm regulations that were out of Fairlyland. God knows where he does his reading. I gave up, but wish you well with this attempt.

 

[Tim.243]

Sorry did I use an incorrect term ?

Copper is a soft, malleable, and ductile transition metal with the symbol Cu and atomic number 29. It's the 29th element on the periodic table and has an atomic weight of 63.55. Copper is a major industrial metal due to its high conductivity, resistance to corrosion, and malleability. It's also an essential nutrient for humans, plants, and animals. Properties: Copper is fire resistant, durable, and can be recycled infinitely without losing quality

I was machining nickel copper in 1979 it was not nice to get results with it then and I doubt it is any better.

 

[Smellydog]

So far with Hornady I've not done to good group wise and in the butts expansion is good to some zero expansion.
3030 isn't catered for to well.
I'm reluctant to use them but want to try one on a fallow this autumn.

 

[Ronin]

Lathe Turned Solids are the way forwards, like it or not

Personally have used them for two decades now

One brand I used is no longer available which is a pity

A reloading subforum or page dedicated to LTS loading, discussion etc would be useful

It’s something we will be considering on the UKV site as it’s also likely this will have an effect for all forms of target shooting

Just in case anyone suggests LTS are not suitable for this - it’s the major bullet type for ELR shooting - so performance or external ballistics won’t be an issue with the correct bullet type or barrel twist rate

 

[Shootgun]

Loads of offerings to chose from , in my .243 Wapiti 85gr HP works best, in my .270 Sako Blade 120gr and RWS HIT 130gr, equaly well.

 

[Blaser243]

Copper is also a major contributor to the fact that we do not speak French as our day to day language.

But how and why ?

Smooth bottoms and toredo worms.

 

[Heym SR20]

In my 243, which is slightly slower than 1 in 10” (German Krupp barrel with metric twist rate) I am using the Fox 80gn bullet handloaded into an RWS case using N140 and published proof load from Edinburgh Rifles. Its accurate and kills well out to as far as I want to shoot, c200m, at live quarry.

I have also used the Peregrine VRG3 100gn and they too work very well. Accurate and hit hard even on big Reds.

 

[Dunwaters]

So far with Hornady I've not done to good group wise and in the butts expansion is good to some zero expansion.
3030 isn't catered for to well.
I'm reluctant to use them but want to try one on a fallow this autumn.

The suggestion wit copper is to use a lighter bullet at higher velocity.
If you are going to perform expansion tests you need a uniform medium. Something like a tub of water, shots dug out of the butt will never give you a reliable result.

 

[Blaser243]

I currently use copper in .308, .25-06, 6.5x55 and 7x65r. I haven't yet tried it in my .222 but its on the list of things to try, just for the sake of experimentation rather than necessity.

I started with the .308 about 4 maybe 5 years ago. I've shot quite a lot of deer with it since then (several hundred) and only had one do a disappearing act on me, which was probably user error rather than the fault of the bullet. Everything else has fallen at least as quickly as lead, on many occasions the results have been far more dramatic and its been bang flop.

All of the above are reloads with Fox bullets. Not driven very hard. 43gn of N135 in the .308, for instance.

When working up a load recently for the .25-06 and 6.5x55 I did consider going to another manufacturer, but two things put me off. 1, Fox bullets just work. There isn't a problem to fix as far as I'm concerned. 2, with the exception of Barnes many of the offerings appeared likely to cause more carcass damage due to petal shedding. Personally, I didn't feel the need for any more lively an end result, so again this wasn't improving the situation. The only downside is that they aren't made in the UK, but supply has never been an issue (thanks Ed!) and a small one-man-band here is just as likely to fail as one overseas (perhaps more so in the current environment!).

 

[Heym SR20]

Have a watch of this. Rather squashes the myth of high velocity needed. It’s all down to bullet design. Full expansion at below 1,000 fps. Interesting they went straight to monolithic bullets rather than lead cored, given it is US based. Perhaps solid copper are just a better bullet.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Have a watch of this. Rather squashes the myth of high velocity needed. It’s all down to bullet design. Full expansion at below 1,000 fps. Interesting they went straight to monolithic bullets rather than lead cored, given it is US based. Perhaps solid copper are just a better bullet.

It appears he's testing the bullets as much as the gun. If you watch very carefully you might see the giveaway, mainly the 1 in 3 twist of the barrel.... that obviously isnt standard is it Heym

That bullet is clearly made for low expansion. If you fired that out of a standard twist, the bullet wouldn't shoot and if you shot it at good velocity out of that rifle, the bullet would tear itself apart.

Nothing is squashed is it

Last thing - 90 percent of bullets expand with water...

 

[NoIDeer]

Fox 80gn in 243 and ttsx 130gn in 270 both 20" barrels so not over fast both work well for me.
I won't start using them until I'm told to.

 

[Heym SR20]

It appears he's testing the bullets as much as the gun. If you watch very carefully you might see the giveaway, mainly the 1 in 3 twist of the barrel.... that obviously isnt standard is it Heym

That bullet is clearly made for low expansion. If you fired that out of a standard twist, the bullet wouldn't shoot and if you shot it at good velocity out of that rifle, the bullet would tear itself apart.

Nothing is squashed is it

No 1 in 3” is not standard. It’s a new development. By using a very fast twist they not only gain stability but you gain a huge amount of rational energy. The bullet is like a fly wheel and will just keep spinning and cutting its way through the animal. This additional spin energy more than makes up for traditional kinetic energy which simply takes into account Mass and the square of velocity.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

No 1 in 3” is not standard. It’s a new development. By using a very fast twist they not only gain stability but you gain a huge amount of rational energy. The bullet is like a fly wheel and will just keep spinning and cutting its way through the animal. This additional spin energy more than makes up for traditional kinetic energy which simply takes into account Mass and the square of velocity.

The side effects of that means its a close range bullet. You're talking once again like that's every lead free bullet known to man kind
Never let facts get in the way of a good story though do you