Interesting article on 243, BASC magazine

Well if you are so convinced that other metals are harmless go crowd fund research yourself and let us know.
I just don't believe half of what is fed to us, see my previous posts ref partridge. There is every likelihood that if lead ingestion kills birds so will other metals.
Other metals certainly do kill. Cadmium, all the radio active ones, etc etc. Mention has been made of copper and in concentrated doses its pretty nasty. Many metals are essential minerals and are essential to our biology, but any of them in large doses can cause problems.

The real problem with lead is that it naturally has very little role in basic plant or animal biology. It us not needed for any animal or plant function. Addition of lead in any quantity has significant impact in the basic function of organisms. Key is that research is showing that it buggers the immune system so preventing the body from fighting off infection or keeping on top of unusual proteins, in particular cellular protein that aren’t quite right (ie potential tumours). Every time cells replicate, there are a few that don’t replicate correctly. In a healthy animal this is not an issue - the immune system mops them up. If your immune system is compromised, then it doesn’t mop them up so well.

There is a key protein, p53, and new research, done here in the UK, shows that lead fundamentally hinders the p53’s ability to trap these odd proteins.
 
Sorry Connor not interested in stuff from across the pond. This is Britain not the USA.
Let's see some from British results.
There is no evidence worldwide that birds are poisoned from ingesting steel shot. You would normally see anectodal evidence first followed by scientific studies. The two scientific studies that have been done are above. Remember, non-lead shot has been used in the UK since wetland/wildfowl related bans on lead shot started from 1999 onwards. The same across most of the countries signed up to the AEWA treaty. Then we have the case of Denmark with a full lead shot ban for many years and various lead bans across USA and Canada. Nowhere has anyone found evidence of poisoning of birds. For lead shot its a very different matter, as we all know.

Here is a 2023 study from Scotland where lead shot use has declined on Islay, and steel shot starting to appear in gizzards instead of lead.

https://pureadmin.uhi.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/38784090/120_Ibis_Geese_on_Islay_Pb_shot.pdf

Here is a 2019 study in Denmark where steel and bismuth now more commonly found in gizzards than lead shot - no issues reported with such ingestion.

 
The reason there are few British results is because nobody has funded the research.

And do you really think that waterfowl, birds of prey and animals, including humans react to chemicals differently just because they are in the UK. Do you really believe that British organisms have a fundamentally different biology to that of those in the US or the EU.
It's not just physiology, it's species, behaviours, habitats, etc. that differ.
 
You do have that choice currently thanks to BASC being opposed to lead bans for 40 years and as a member of this forum you will be surely aware of the many threads discussing the science on the impact of lead shot on birds ingesting that lead shot as grit and seed. So, you will be aware that some of that lead shot you are shooting on your own land is very likely causing suffering and death to some of the wild birds on your land - and now the government wants to ban the use of lead shot for live quarry shooting to reduce the risk of that happening anymore. The same is happening in the EU. This is nothing to do with game shooting and markets for game - surely you don't believe that the pending lead shot ban in Britain and the EU (+NI) is the agenda of this government and all the member states across the EU to support new markets for British game meat?

Sorry I must have missed it, where is the report that shows that (specifically) UK pigeons, pheasants and partridges are dying after ingesting lead? My point is around proportionality. The December HSE report included this table on the estimated volumes of lead released annually, last year I fired under 100 cartridges and everything shot was eaten here.
1757410717745.webp
 

From 2018. The author is described as a Danish biologist, scientist and hunter. His conclusion:

"Although the progress towards eliminating lead shot from use in hunting has been slow, the results in Denmark have been important and long-lasting. Positive experiences from the use of non-lead ammunition are increasingly available from more countries that have enforced regulations for three decades, including North America countries, The Netherlands, Spain, and France. Most Danish hunters were initially negative and skeptical towards the change. This was due to biased information about the actual environmental consequences of firing lead shot into wetlands, postulated (but unfounded) damage to guns caused by non-lead shot, poor killing impact, safety issues, and high prices of non-lead products. Resistance to change was driven by these concerns, combined with tensions between hunting and conservation communities and lack of organizational leadership. The legal progress was ensured by a firm parliamentary regulatory process stimulated particularly by a forceful approach from a “green” opposition and strong conservationists, both organized and individuals, who influenced the government of the time.

"Within a few years of the first regulations coming into force, hunters and their organizations changed their attitude towards the regulation, becoming positive and constructive. This was driven by a wider understanding of the risks of dispersed of lead shot in ecosystems. The introduction of new generations of shot types manufactured of non-lead alternatives from a growing number of manufacturers increased hunters’ confidence that the transition from lead to non-lead shot could occur without jeopardizing shooting performance and safety, and without reducing personal harvest rates or increasing cartridge consumption. The early introduction of steel shot for clay target shooting exposed many hunters to good training experiences. Contrary to some hunters’ fears, change was not an obstruction to continued hunting opportunity (Kanstrup 2015). On the contrary, it is believed that the valuable public image of hunters visibly seen to be reducing the dispersal of a recognized contaminant poison (i.e. lead) into the environment has been of paramount importance for the long-term political sustainability of hunting (Kanstrup et al. 2018).

"It is well documented that the effective transition to non-toxic ammunition quickly reduces the level of poisoning in wild birds. However, it is easy to ignore lead ammunition’s toxic legacy and the long-term persistence of lead shot in ecosystems. These historical residues constitute a persistent and significant toxic threat to wildlife and the reputation of hunting. The single take-home lesson from the Danish and other experiences is that it takes the initiative of active conservationist groups and a responsible public authority with statutory powers to change mindsets in the wider public interest, no matter how unpopular, and to encourage all affected stakeholders to support the process in resolving this major environmental problem.

"Lessons learned from the Danish process could be instructive to other countries facing the same challenge at different stages of the process, but also to Denmark in further reducing the adverse environmental footprints of recreational hunting and thereby enhancing its long-term sustainability."
 
I just feel the small scale shooters are being ignored in a pathetic attempt to improve the image of industrial driven shooting of thousands of birds, where there is and never will be a market for them to be eaten.

Why the F shouldn't I walk around on my own land and shoot a couple of wild birds with lead shot and then eat them?
Because you know who disapproves of it!
 
Other metals certainly do kill. Cadmium, all the radio active ones, etc etc. Mention has been made of copper and in concentrated doses its pretty nasty. Many metals are essential minerals and are essential to our biology, but any of them in large doses can cause problems.

The real problem with lead is that it naturally has very little role in basic plant or animal biology. It us not needed for any animal or plant function. Addition of lead in any quantity has significant impact in the basic function of organisms. Key is that research is showing that it buggers the immune system so preventing the body from fighting off infection or keeping on top of unusual proteins, in particular cellular protein that aren’t quite right (ie potential tumours). Every time cells replicate, there are a few that don’t replicate correctly. In a healthy animal this is not an issue - the immune system mops them up. If your immune system is compromised, then it doesn’t mop them up so well.

There is a key protein, p53, and new research, done here in the UK, shows that lead fundamentally hinders the p53’s ability to trap these odd proteins.
But none of us is dead or dying from lead shot poisoning so it would appear that the boffins are yet to understand the full picture.
 

From 2018. The author is described as a Danish biologist, scientist and hunter. His conclusion:

"Although the progress towards eliminating lead shot from use in hunting has been slow, the results in Denmark have been important and long-lasting. Positive experiences from the use of non-lead ammunition are increasingly available from more countries that have enforced regulations for three decades, including North America countries, The Netherlands, Spain, and France. Most Danish hunters were initially negative and skeptical towards the change. This was due to biased information about the actual environmental consequences of firing lead shot into wetlands, postulated (but unfounded) damage to guns caused by non-lead shot, poor killing impact, safety issues, and high prices of non-lead products. Resistance to change was driven by these concerns, combined with tensions between hunting and conservation communities and lack of organizational leadership. The legal progress was ensured by a firm parliamentary regulatory process stimulated particularly by a forceful approach from a “green” opposition and strong conservationists, both organized and individuals, who influenced the government of the time.

"Within a few years of the first regulations coming into force, hunters and their organizations changed their attitude towards the regulation, becoming positive and constructive. This was driven by a wider understanding of the risks of dispersed of lead shot in ecosystems. The introduction of new generations of shot types manufactured of non-lead alternatives from a growing number of manufacturers increased hunters’ confidence that the transition from lead to non-lead shot could occur without jeopardizing shooting performance and safety, and without reducing personal harvest rates or increasing cartridge consumption. The early introduction of steel shot for clay target shooting exposed many hunters to good training experiences. Contrary to some hunters’ fears, change was not an obstruction to continued hunting opportunity (Kanstrup 2015). On the contrary, it is believed that the valuable public image of hunters visibly seen to be reducing the dispersal of a recognized contaminant poison (i.e. lead) into the environment has been of paramount importance for the long-term political sustainability of hunting (Kanstrup et al. 2018).

"It is well documented that the effective transition to non-toxic ammunition quickly reduces the level of poisoning in wild birds. However, it is easy to ignore lead ammunition’s toxic legacy and the long-term persistence of lead shot in ecosystems. These historical residues constitute a persistent and significant toxic threat to wildlife and the reputation of hunting. The single take-home lesson from the Danish and other experiences is that it takes the initiative of active conservationist groups and a responsible public authority with statutory powers to change mindsets in the wider public interest, no matter how unpopular, and to encourage all affected stakeholders to support the process in resolving this major environmental problem.

"Lessons learned from the Danish process could be instructive to other countries facing the same challenge at different stages of the process, but also to Denmark in further reducing the adverse environmental footprints of recreational hunting and thereby enhancing its long-term sustainability."
This is England, not Denmark, their issues are theirs, and ours are ours.
 
But none of us is dead or dying from lead shot poisoning so it would appear that the boffins are yet to understand the full picture.
Arn't we? Clearly you have a much better understanding of heavy metal toxicity after long term exposure and potential genotoxicity of known carcinogens than most. True, "the boffins are yet to understand the full picture". It took them nearly 2000 years to ban lead water pipes, anybody want those back? My research into hexavalent chromium (sorry not a problem directly related to shooting) also shows that the 'boffins' are unwilling to scare the crap out of the general populace even once they have the full picture when any 'cures' to the problem would affect a major and profitable industry. We are a minority, expect to be treated as an easy target.
 
Arn't we? Clearly you have a much better understanding of heavy metal toxicity after long term exposure and potential genotoxicity of known carcinogens than most. True, "the boffins are yet to understand the full picture". It took them nearly 2000 years to ban lead water pipes, anybody want those back? My research into hexavalent chromium (sorry not a problem directly related to shooting) also shows that the 'boffins' are unwilling to scare the crap out of the general populace even once they have the full picture when any 'cures' to the problem would affect a major and profitable industry. We are a minority, expect to be treated as an easy target.
Are you responding from your hospital bed? If not we must agree to differ!
 
Sorry I must have missed it, where is the report that shows that (specifically) UK pigeons, pheasants and partridges are dying after ingesting lead? My point is around proportionality. The December HSE report included this table on the estimated volumes of lead released annually, last year I fired under 100 cartridges and everything shot was eaten here.
View attachment 436425

UK studies for partridge, grouse and pheasant below. Not aware of any on UK pigeons being studied but plenty of studies on pigeons from overseas.

Grey partridge

Incidence of ingested lead gunshot in wild grey partridges (Perdix perdix) from the UK

A GWCT study published in 2005 based on 1,318 post mortems found that 4.5% of discovered dead birds contained lead shot in their gizzards and estimated that 1.2% of living wild grey partridges contained ingested lead shot at any one time.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ild_grey_partridges_Perdix_perdix_from_the_UK

The Danish grey partridge that was reported as having ingested 34 lead shot in the above Potts paper is from a very detailed report on lead poisoning in various Danish birds, that is available to read online from the link below, and the results are stark, and that is from 50 years ago!

https://dce2.au.dk/pub/vbs/DRGB11_2.pdf

Red grouse

Bone lead levels and lead isotope ratios in red grouse from Scottish and Yorkshire moors


Bone lead levels and lead isotope ratios in red grouse from Scottish and Yorkshire moors

This research involved investigating various sources of raised lead levels in red grouse, and suggested management options for the three moors include adopting non-lead shot for all game shooting on the estates, allowing heather vegetation to grow tall in lead shot fall-out zones to reduce physical access to high densities of lead shot already present, and provision of calcareous grit across moors to reduce lead assimilation from all ingested sources of lead.

Common pheasant

Lead exposure in ring-necked pheasants on shooting estates in Great Britain.


https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2193/0091-7648(2005)33[583:LEIRPO]2.0.CO;2

The scientists examined 437 ring-necked pheasant gizzards collected from birds shot on 32 shooting estates in Great Britain during spring 1996 and 1997 and during the shooting seasons of 1999-2000 and 2001-2002. They determined wing-bone-lead concentrations in 98 female birds collected in 1997. Gizzard examinations showed an overall ingestion incidence rate of 3.0%. The birds that had lead in their gizzards in 1997 also had high concentrations of lead in their bones. They suggested that game managers on shooting estates should be aware that pheasants are vulnerable to shot ingestion and may need to consider measures to reduce this problem in areas where prevalence is high.

Also from UK:

Calvert H (1876) Pheasants poisoned by swallowing shot. Field 47:18

Beer JV (1988) Diseases of gamebirds and wildfowl. Game Conservancy Ltd, Fordingbridge.
(refs a pheasant having ingested 87 pieces of lead shot)
 
UK studies for partridge, grouse and pheasant below. Not aware of any on UK pigeons being studied but plenty of studies on pigeons from overseas.

Grey partridge

Incidence of ingested lead gunshot in wild grey partridges (Perdix perdix) from the UK

A GWCT study published in 2005 based on 1,318 post mortems found that 4.5% of discovered dead birds contained lead shot in their gizzards and estimated that 1.2% of living wild grey partridges contained ingested lead shot at any one time.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ild_grey_partridges_Perdix_perdix_from_the_UK

The Danish grey partridge that was reported as having ingested 34 lead shot in the above Potts paper is from a very detailed report on lead poisoning in various Danish birds, that is available to read online from the link below, and the results are stark, and that is from 50 years ago!

https://dce2.au.dk/pub/vbs/DRGB11_2.pdf

Red grouse

Bone lead levels and lead isotope ratios in red grouse from Scottish and Yorkshire moors


Bone lead levels and lead isotope ratios in red grouse from Scottish and Yorkshire moors

This research involved investigating various sources of raised lead levels in red grouse, and suggested management options for the three moors include adopting non-lead shot for all game shooting on the estates, allowing heather vegetation to grow tall in lead shot fall-out zones to reduce physical access to high densities of lead shot already present, and provision of calcareous grit across moors to reduce lead assimilation from all ingested sources of lead.

Common pheasant

Lead exposure in ring-necked pheasants on shooting estates in Great Britain.


https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.2193/0091-7648(2005)33[583:LEIRPO]2.0.CO;2

The scientists examined 437 ring-necked pheasant gizzards collected from birds shot on 32 shooting estates in Great Britain during spring 1996 and 1997 and during the shooting seasons of 1999-2000 and 2001-2002. They determined wing-bone-lead concentrations in 98 female birds collected in 1997. Gizzard examinations showed an overall ingestion incidence rate of 3.0%. The birds that had lead in their gizzards in 1997 also had high concentrations of lead in their bones. They suggested that game managers on shooting estates should be aware that pheasants are vulnerable to shot ingestion and may need to consider measures to reduce this problem in areas where prevalence is high.

Also from UK:

Calvert H (1876) Pheasants poisoned by swallowing shot. Field 47:18

Beer JV (1988) Diseases of gamebirds and wildfowl. Game Conservancy Ltd, Fordingbridge.
(refs a pheasant having ingested 87 pieces of lead shot)
So 97% were just fine, but surely the biggest cause of mortality in pheasants is being shot at to start with, and of course some of these birds will not be killed outright but to some extent survive for a considerable time afterwards. Those of us with actual shooting experience will have encountered such birds with wounds that have apparently healed although these birds are usually underweight compared to others without such wounds
 
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Sorry but it's not just 'antis' . The vast majority of the public get their misconceptions from the press (or nonsense on forums). Antis, or press wanting to engage more readers, or failing governments wanting to win a few easy brownie points for the next election (think that covers all of them since 1944...) will warp whatever 'data' is available to suit their agenda. " If a lie is big enough and you repeat it often enough people will believe it." Joseph Geobbels. (Aka Hitlers spin doctor)
Personally I don't care how much lead other people choose to feed their families, I prefer not to. Expecting game dealers trying to maintain sales and the general public to accept a product contaminated with a substance that they have repeated been told is potentially damaging to their health is naive in the extreme.
Using non toxic (and non polluting) ammunition is not "working with the enemy" it is proving to the wider public that 'We' are prepared to make small changes, even minor compromises, to protect public health, the environment and ultimately our sport and livelihoods.
When it comes to lead ammunition the vast majority (almost the entirety) of the general public have no opinion, let alone misconceptions.
 
Also there have been previous records of grey partridge ingesting lead shot referenced here:

KEYMER, I. F. (1958) A survey and review of the causes of mortality in British birds and the significance of wild birds as disseminators of disease.Veterinary
Record 70, 713

KEYMER, I. F. & STEBBINGS, R. S. (1987) Lead poisoning in a partridge (Perdix perdix) after ingestion of gunshot. Veterinary Record 120, 276-277
 
Red-legged partridge

Incidence of lead shot ingestion in red-legged partridges (Alectoris rufa ) in Great Britain


Incidence of lead shot ingestion in red-legged partridges (Alectoris rufa) in Great Britain - PubMed

144 hunter-killed birds were collected randomly from 10 reared estates after shoot days during the 2001/02 season. The sample size from each estate ranged from 10 to 33, depending on availability. The shooting estates were located in the Midlands, East Anglia and the southern counties of England. The level of gamebird hunting varied between the estates.

Two (1.4 %) gizzards of the 144 hunter-killed birds contained ingested lead shot. Both birds were male and they had been collected from different estates.
 
When it comes to lead ammunition the vast majority (almost the entirety) of the general public have no opinion, let alone misconceptions.
Information from where?
What is the opinion of the same sample of the general public on ingestion of a know toxic heavy metal? What proportion of that sample would try a new food source knowing that it may contain a toxin?
 
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