Taking out non stalkers

[sy247]

I’ve been on here a long time and have picked up a lot from the forum over the years, so thought I’d sense check something with the collective wisdom.

Over the last couple of years I’ve had a few non stalkers ask about coming out just to see what deer stalking is all about.

It’s got me thinking whether there’s a sensible way to do this occasionally for the right sort of person, not as a commercial thing, just on a very informal basis.

I’m conscious of a few things, not putting pressure on the ground, managing expectations especially around 'getting something', and making sure it remains enjoyable rather than feeling like a responsibility.

I know there are plenty of ways this could be done badly, so interested in views from those who’ve taken non stalkers out before, introduced people to stalking or guided in any form.

Particularly around how you manage expectations and keep it a positive experience for everyone involved.

Interested to hear people’s thoughts.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Don’t over think it

It’s a very simple thing. You are taking someone out to shoot
Don’t let them think they are getting a result just let them relax into a night where they may or may not get a shot



Don’t over think it. It’s not a great big thing really is it ?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

Probably not entirely relevant - I've taken a small handful of people out and have managed to get them on their first deer, my wife included. I will say it was a quality experience to see the reaction when they take their first after the obligatory practice sessions + base ground rules (firearm safety, plans etc).

I've also had a few gents from here out with me previously, albeit not showing them the ropes. I've made some good friends through this site who I keep in contact with on a very regular basis. You won't regret it but obviously there's trust that goes both ways!

As to the managing expectations - you're going for an armed ramble. If you see something/shoot something its a bonus. A general chat about them being wild animals and whilst you will try getting them on a deer, there are never any promises and there's always an opportunity for next time.

Good luck

 

[Taff]

Reading your post, don’t do it you overthink things

 

[dryan]

I’ve taken a couple of new stalkers out and got them into deer. Both of them could accurately shoot and had their own rifles which made it somewhat easier.

The key points of concern were:
1. make sure they’re suitably attired, gloves/hat/perhaps face veil

2. Ensure they stay tight to you on movement and know to keep movement and speech to a minimum.

I find bringing others stalking hugely rewarding, more of a challenge and in a way confirms your ability to stalk

 

[kieran222]

I have done it and anyone that I have taken out has enjoyed it and I have which is just as important. You are thinking about it far too much, just do it.

 

[Mungo]

I’ve been on here a long time and have picked up a lot from the forum over the years, so thought I’d sense check something with the collective wisdom.

Over the last couple of years I’ve had a few non stalkers ask about coming out just to see what deer stalking is all about.

It’s got me thinking whether there’s a sensible way to do this occasionally for the right sort of person, not as a commercial thing, just on a very informal basis.

I’m conscious of a few things, not putting pressure on the ground, managing expectations especially around 'getting something', and making sure it remains enjoyable rather than feeling like a responsibility.

I know there are plenty of ways this could be done badly, so interested in views from those who’ve taken non stalkers out before, introduced people to stalking or guided in any form.

Particularly around how you manage expectations and keep it a positive experience for everyone involved.

Interested to hear people’s thoughts.

It’s very straightforward.

Decide if you’re comfortable with this person following you around. You need to know them well enough to form your own opinion about how they might react to all the possible outcomes. I have had many people ask to come along, and I only take out those I’ve decided won’t get upset if it gets messy.

Tell them to show up wearing muted weather appropriate outdoor clothes and stout footwear.

Brief them on what’s going to happen and what you want them to do. In my case: follow me a metre or two behind and slightly to my right (so I can keep track of them out of the corner of my good eye). If I stop, you stop. If I get down, you get down. If the rifle comes off my shoulder, stay still and wait for further instruction.

Only ever had problems with one person: my father in law, who is notorious for deciding he knows best in all situations and will not listen to instructions. Examples:

Stalked up to corner of tree line. Peered round. Deer at 400m in dip in field. Told father in law to wait. Crawled out along tractor ruts to get to 200m. Just setting up to take shot. Deer start looking up and getting nervous. Shadow fell over me. Father in law had walked out to stand next to me ‘so he could get a better view’. Still managed to shoot one before they ran.

Stalking through forestry. Saw deer through trees at about 40m. Set up on sticks. Deer aware something up, peering towards us. I was slowly manoeuvring to get a clear shot through trees. Suddenly scope went dark. I looked up. Father in law had stepped forward, and was bent over, sighting down the barrel ‘so he could see the deer’. Muzzle was more or less touching his shoulder.

And he was a perfect example of someone I would not have taken out of I’d been left to make the decision myself! Obviously this one was a political decision…

 

[Midlandstalker2024]

I’ve brought non stalkers who may do other types of shooting and also my partner who just likes getting out and seeing some nature.

if I bring someone I just make it clear that the odds are against us and not set expectations too high. Have had mixed results and never had someone else with their own gun.

My main concern with it is loose lips and that craic, wouldn’t bring someone if I thought they’d chance encroaching on my permission but never know who’d hear about it through the grapevine. I don’t shoot any leases so all my permissions are through the good relationships with farmers

 

[slider]

I took some out that had badgered me for a while. It was an evening stalk and despite my advice he tutn up in trainers and lightweight clothing. It wasn't to cool when we sent off.
Anyway we had a fair trek back to the truck after the light went. Turns out he was afraid of the dark!!! Never asked me again....

 

[Dunwaters]

Whether or not you get a deer, the guest needs to shoot the gun and keep the empty.

 

[rem284]

There's vast differences between some people. Some just don't need much schooling. Some just can't be schooled.

The safety is always the main concern. Muzzle awareness is lacking in some. Even after the "talk" I've had them chamber rounds when pointing it at a vehicle, far off villages and other people in our party and you tell and you just wonder when it's going to sink in. I've swore at them to try and make them realise what a stupid thing they just done but.....

I've had them rest the muzzle on a foot. I say "if that goes off, it's taking your foot off".
Reply " aye but it's not loaded". My answer, " yes but if you get into the habit of doing that you will 1 day think it's not loaded and it could leave you hoppng mad".

 

[ChrisWill184]

Having done it quite a lot with friends and family I would say that you should be prepared to point out nearly everything that you take for granted. I went out just the other afternoon with my 4 1/2 year old and it was amazing the things that I wouldn’t otherwise have said if it weren’t for her being there.

Things like, deer slot marks, slowing down when coming round a corner, walking quietly (usual for us but it is amazing how much of a racket other people make!), keeping still, as in not moving, at all! and as said above, keeping low so they can’t see you.

I thought it was amazing how useless people were until I realised that they don’t do this all the time, think you can shoot them on any occasion from 300+ yards and they don’t want to get their trousers dirty.

And I have not taken the rifle into account at all. I won’t go into safety and all that here but I had one friend who was a little keen to take the shot. Didn’t wait until I said, fired the rifle with the buck moving and put the shot in further back than what was needed. I had to finish it with a second shot and he wasn’t feeling so great after. Definitely do lots of talking and be sure that they slow down when it’s most needed.

 

[pob]

I take people out, but I can't let them shoot. They seem to enjoy it anyway.

My BASC insurance covers them, I was informed. Main points are muzzle awareness, appropriate clothing and footwear and that they shouldn't touch the firearm. I give them electronic ear defenders, even though I don't wear them. I often give them my thermal and a spare pair of bins. (I have a spare thermal now). You have to be honest that your chances are much diminished on a foot stalk with a novice observer in tow. I show them the gralloch, if they're up for it. They always take away some venison, something they can pan-fry, if we've been lucky.
That's it. Have fun.

 

[west_meon]

I think it is a great idea so long as it’s thought through and they know what to expect. Have taken about 4 people out, all non-stalkers who just wanted to watch how it works and learn something new. They were never going to use the rifle on live quarry , although 2 did fire a few rounds at a target after the stalk. All really enjoyed the experience and all bought some venison afterwards. Lent them some bins and a spare thermal imager so they could get involved. Well worth while, IMHO.

 

[CAVHUNT]

I've stoppred doing it.

I've had way too many bad expiences with people who were experienced shooters but not in sambar/wild dog hunting. One fella I had walk behind me dog hunting. I could hear him constantly working his rifle...safety on then off, round chambered then round ejected, magazine out then back in etc. I got him up beside me and called in a wild dog. I gave him the nod to shoot. He did..only there was a click when he pulled the trigger...empty chambe and magazine. My shot was only a second or two after I heard the click.

Then there was the wannabe sambar hunter I set up with him in a sitting position leaning on a tree in an ambush position an hour or so before dark. I'd told him the deer would appear at spot X some 30 odd metres away. I left him and took up a position parallel to him 300 metres away. Just before dark I heard him shoot. When I reached him he was a bit sheepish. Said he'd had his rifle laying on one of his outstretched legs. Said he'd gone to sleep with his finger on the trigger, safety off and had unknowingly pulled it. I was ropeable. He didn't seem to comprehend his stupidity or the fact that if the muzzle had been in front his other leg/foot that his .338 Magnum would have acted like a hand grenade and there'd be nothing left of his lower leg.

I'm way too old now to be bothered with it all and besideres....I'd like very much like to not be another 'accidental' shooting victim statistic. I am a strictly just me and my dog type of hunter.

 

[Heym SR20]

I have taken out a number who have never stalked. I treat it as going for a walk to see deer, rather than a deer shooting exercise. I like to try and get in as close as possible and give them the opportunity to get right up close to nature.

I will quietly talk them through what the deer are and why or why not to shoot them. Generally I resign myself to not shooting unless there is something that clearly does need - ie a beast in poor condition.

 

[sy247]

That’s all really useful, and if I’m honest it’s made me realise I was probably overthinking it a bit.

The 'armed ramble' description really resonated. I think that’s exactly how it needs to be framed from the outset, not a mission to shoot something, just an opportunity to experience what actually goes into a stalk. If that’s clear from the start, it takes a lot of pressure and expectation out of it.

A few of the comments about who you take have also hit home. It’s probably less about the concept and more about the individual. Most people would be fine, but it only takes one person who doesn’t listen, moves at the wrong time, or just doesn’t grasp what’s going on to turn it into hard work or worse. The stories about people doing daft things weren’t surprising, but they do make the point pretty clearly.

Prior shooting experience doesn’t necessarily make it easier. In some ways it sounds like it can make it worse if people bring habits or confidence that don’t translate to stalking. That probably reinforces the point that you have to treat everyone as a complete novice in that environment, regardless of what they’ve done before.

The safety side is really the line in the sand for me. I think I’ve answered my own question there, unless I know someone very well and I’m completely confident in them, they stay as an observer. Even then, it’s not something I’d rush into. It’s easy to underestimate how much you take for granted until you’re trying to explain wind, movement, noise discipline, or even just how to walk quietly.

That said, it does sound like it can be a genuinely good experience when it’s done right. A few of you mentioned how much people enjoy it even without a shot being taken, and that’s probably the bit I’m most interested in, showing someone what stalking actually involves rather than what they think it is.

At the same time, the potential downsides are pretty obvious. Permissions, loose talk, people not listening, or just being unpredictable, all things that could cause problems if you’re not careful. A couple of examples of experienced shooters still managing to do unsafe or daft things probably underline that more than anything.

Where I’ve ended up is that I’ll do it, but keep it low key, occasional, and with people I trust. Set expectations properly before we set out, keep full control of the situation, and treat it as an experience rather than anything outcome driven.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to reply.

 

[fixedwheel]

I'd told him the deer would appear at spot X some 30 odd metres away.

He didn't seem to comprehend his stupidity or the fact that if the muzzle had been in front his other leg/foot that his .338 Magnum would have acted like a hand grenade and there'd be nothing left of his lower leg.

Jeez, you have some seriously fecking tough deer there, if it needs a .338 Mag at 30 metres!!

 

[pazmino]

I've done this quite a few times, for people to just accompany me rather than shoot. As others have said, some people understand the need to keep quiet and move quietly, others don't seem to or just can't.
I've always said "Stay close behind me. And when I stop, you stop." Not everyone can follow instructions though!

 

[CAVHUNT]

fixedwheel said - Jeez, you have some seriously fecking tough deer there, if it needs a .338 Mag at 30 metres!!

The .308 and .30/06 are the most popular calibres amongst sambar hunters but the .338 is a popular choice as well. But calibre creep doesn't stop there. It's not difficult to find sambar hunters using a diverse range of the big bor/magnum calibres from the .338 up to the mighty .458 magnum.