Importing expanding bullets

[jon2]

Sinistral,

We're starting to go off at a tangent here from the original post but how can a Constabulary that makes up the law be considered as 'enlightened'? Law making is a function of Parliament. The police are there to enforce those Laws. In fact, you refer to and seem to recognise 'the current law' in your third paragraph.

I am not a solicitor but I suspect that the Firearms Act supported by the Guidance Note will take precedence over whatever is contained in the conditions on Pablo's certificate. The Act is the law not what a civilian Firearms Licensing Manager has written on someone's certificate. In reality, it is unlikely that anything will go wrong. However, if Pablo or anyone else that falls under a Constabulary that adopts the same procedure is brought to task over their allocation then I believe that the total permitted allowance for possession will be taken to be that allowed for cartridges - 100. Not the total allocation of cartridges and bullets - 300.

I would suggest that Pablo shouldn't be worried at all about rocking the boat and apply for a much increased total allowance as Tackleberry mentioned. At present, he is not even permitted to purchase and possess the minimum quantities of ammunition recommended for a stalker under clause 13.28 of the Guidance Note, that is 200 and 250 respectively. If Pablo is a homeloader then he should be permitted a total holding of anywhere between say 500 and 1,000 for each calibre he shoots. That is the law not a separate allocation for cartidges and bullets.

Kind regards,

Tim

Perfectly put Tim1. I agree entirely and was the point I was making before Sinistral misinterpreted my post.

 

[paddy]

am allowed 1000 rounds on my fac . ive started reloading now and am allowed enough to make up 1000 rounds but i cannot have any more than 1000 rounds built up

 

[mperring]

See this

http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/A897A67F-8012-4B56-86FA7138DFFC3197

 

[Dalua]

See this

http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/A897A67F-8012-4B56-86FA7138DFFC3197

I note that the document contains this paragraph:

Loose expanding missiles are caught by the definition of ‘ammunition’ in the Firearms​

Acts; therefore where a firearm certificate authorises the holder to possess, purchase or​

acquire loose expanding missiles they must also be written onto the certificate. In essencethey are to be treated as ammunition even though they have not yet been made into​

ammunition.

I found the bit in bold interesting, as no RFD has ever entered any expanding bullets onto my certificate. Is it actually correct?

 

[Virbius]

I note that the document contains this paragraph:

Loose expanding missiles are caught by the definition of ‘ammunition’ in the Firearms​

Acts; therefore where a firearm certificate authorises the holder to possess, purchase or​

acquire loose expanding missiles they must also be written onto the certificate. In essencethey are to be treated as ammunition even though they have not yet been made into​

ammunition.

I found the bit in bold interesting, as no RFD has ever entered any expanding bullets onto my certificate. Is it actually correct?

All loose expanding missiles purchased have been entered on my FAC, and one local RFD writes in the powder as well.

 

[Yorkie]

Always had expanding bullets entered on to my certificate by the dealers in west yorks i use.

Just to complicate things further. Prior to my last visit by my FEO i enquired to BASC as to the position on expanding bullets being locked away same as ammunition.Was told by the nice lady who sounds like Margot from 'The Good Life' that i indeed must lock the bullets away as per ammunition. Many seem unaware or disagree with this.
Maybe Matt would confirm this please?

Yorkie.

 

[Dalua]

I certainly keep S5 bullets in the ammunition safe.

As for having them (or any other reloading component, for that matter) entered on my FAC this has not, during my relatively short reloading career, happened at five different RFDs under three constabularies.

 

[lister]

expanding bullets do not have to be entered on fac rfd enters sale in his log
ch3 3.17

 

[nuttyspaniel]

See this

http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/A897A67F-8012-4B56-86FA7138DFFC3197

Ive been waiting for this to be posted, Ive spent the last 2 weeks looking for this document. I was told 2 weeks ago it had changed... Thats the imports up in the air now.


nutty

 

[nuttyspaniel]

expanding bullets do not have to be entered on fac rfd enters sale in his log
ch3 3.17

Look at the date on the link Matt posted. Its all changed.


nutty

 

[lister]

I think it is a mistake expanding bullets count as part of your allowance and must be kept in ammo safe but do not have to be entered on your ticket some rfds enter expanding bullets on fac but it is not the law

 

[Dalua]

I think it is a mistake expanding bullets count as part of your allowance and must be kept in ammo safe but do not have to be entered on your ticket
some rfds enter expanding bullets on fac but it is not the law

This is my current view, but this view is not supported by the BASC document for which the link has been posted. It is supported, however, by the 2002 HO Guidance to police 3.17

I am confused!

 

[lister]

ch4 is about expanding ammunition and expanding missiles
expanding missiles are classed as ammunition within the firearms law but it then refers back to ch3 3.17 I think this is where the confusion is caused in the BASC doc I am not a member so perhaps someone who is could ask if it is a mistake

 

[Sinistral]

I think it is a mistake expanding bullets count as part of your allowance and must be kept in ammo safe but do not have to be entered on your ticket some rfds enter expanding bullets on fac but it is not the law

I agree with all this, apart from the security issue. Mine sit on the shelf. They're only bits of metal after all

 

[lister]

I agree with all this, apart from the security issue. Mine sit on the shelf. They're only bits of metal after all

Hi sinistral
you should take expanding bullets off the shelf and keep them in safe unless your shelf is in a gunroom
lister

 

[mperring]

ch4 is about expanding ammunition and expanding missiles
expanding missiles are classed as ammunition within the firearms law but it then refers back to ch3 3.17 I think this is where the confusion is caused in the BASC doc I am not a member so perhaps someone who is could ask if it is a mistake

Its not a mistake I'm the author of the BASC sheet. The Home Office guidance is misleading and as a Home Office consultant on the review if the 2002 guidance I can confirm the wording has been changed and it will be published as soon as the Home Office decide to do so, maybe by spring next year.

Anybody leaving expanding missiles unsecure so as NOT "to prevent access by unauthorised persons" in accordance with condition 4(a) & (b) of your FAC stands to be prosecuted.

The BASC sheet has been lawyered and was drafted with Home Office and ACPO involvement. It is the definitive guidance available.

Due to naff guidance and complex law RFDs haven't signed missiles on and continue not to do so. Give your RFD a copy of the fact sheet to stop them breaking the law. It's an offence not to sign them on.

 

[lister]

hi mperring
are you saying that a rfd has to enter expanding bullets on your fac

 

[mperring]

Yes yes yes

 

[lister]

how do I apply for fac if the guidance is not valid?

 

[mperring]

Don't be a.....