Pellet Pinger
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a bad batch to me for sure.
17hmr vs......
- Thread starter Dazza9t9
- Start date
Sounds like a bad batch to me for sure.
Splitting after shot or fresh out the box without being fired?
The HMR is a funny little cartridge that people tend to love or hate. I like it because nothing out there does what it does in terms of point and shoot from 25-125yds without having to reload your own ammo. I suppose I reload for other rifles (a lot) and find it a pain, so no way I want to take on more.
For night vision rabbit control, it is hard to look past the HMR. Clearly there are some issues with consistency of ammunition, both in terms of performance and quality of manufacture. The first issue is the same as with any rimfire ammo (or even CF ammo) You get good batches and bad batches.
The second issue is the one that makes people ditch the cartridge because they get fed up of jamming bullets in to the barrel due to squibs or poor ignition. I personally have never had a single squib or bullet jam and that is after thousands of shots through my little Annie. I have had one fail to fire where the primer just did not go off. Comparatively so, I have had nearly a dozen fail to fires in the .22LR. In all examples, rotating the cartridge so the primer was struck on a different part of the rim saw the round fire correctly. It happens.
What is unforgiveable is the split neck issue before the round is fired. The brass is thin and I presume bullet seating puts pressure on the material and results in splits. Although you shouldn't have to, it is very good practice to open the box and inspect each neck (under lamp light with a loupe if your eyesight is poor) to ensure you have no splits. If you do, take the box back to where you bought it and demand a refund. Make a note of the batch number from that box and never buy any of that again. Repeat with a different brand or batch and if all is well, shoot some. If they go well, return to the gun shop and buy all you can and rinse repeat when you need to. The trouble with split necks pre shot, is that moisture can get in to case, more so if stored incorrectly or with rounds being taken out to the field, not fired and returned to the box/cabinet. Moisture ingress means poor ignition either from the powder or maybe even the primer compound and that is why people experience the squibs.
I have only found issue twice with purchases of ammunition in terms of split necks. Once was buying a load of old ammo from someone on here. They were clearly old and about 15% of the rounds had split necks but they were so cheap to buy, that i was still happy to only use the rounds without split necks. They have shot averagely well and I have no complaints about performance. Some of the split neck rounds will see the bullet push up in to the neck with only a small amount of pressure. No way would I fire those.
The other box I had was from a shop. A few split necks. I took them straight back and got a refund and told them to take the rest off the shelf. Whether they did or not, I don't know.
ALL other boxes i have shot have been 100% fine, although as with all ammunition, you get good lots and bad lots. The best lot I ever had was Federal V Shok and I managed to buy lots of boxes of that stuff. It was half minute ammunition and I have never seen anything like it since. It was genuinely 200yd+ ammunition. I would say average ammo will be somewhere around the 1inch mark at 100yds with poor quality being worse than 1.5".
Should you have to go through this rigmarole of checking to ensure safe use? Nope, not at all. Is it necessary if you want to use easy to source, affordable (just) factory ammo for high volume rabbit control to avoid spending the rest of your days faffing about reloading hornet rounds? Yep.
Mine has been sat getting cold for a while now as the rabbit numbers are down. I keep thinking maybe I should get rid but I recall the days of shooting 150-200 rabbits a week. No way am I reloading 800 rounds a month if they come back.
As with all cartridges, there are pros and cons. If you are shooting 20 rabbits a week, get a Hornet. It will be a much better gun all round in every way. If you are shooting 200 a week, well, good luck with your reloading.
17hornet brass can be had but is about two to three times the price of 22hornet brass. Top up now and again also with factory 17hornet ammo.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
I have a 222 that I have loaded for 22WMR speeds (too many ricochets) with 45gn Hornet bullets. A bit too slow for the bullet but hornet velocities would probably be fine.
I also load 40 Vmax and 52 Amax both shoot very small groups.
with a 222 or 223 you have the potential for loading to suit the job. I have used mine for rabbits, head shoot and they are still edible. They will take foxes and are small deer legal or Roe legal if you go north of the boarder.
You could get a 17 Hornet or a 204 maybe, but it would not be as versatile as a 224 calibre rifle in one guise or another.
To be clear my fox/ vermin go to rifle isn’t 20 Tac. But there’s a place in my cabinet for the 222 it is just more versatile
Not exactly the same as the 20 Tac is based on the 223 case but they are virtually the same as far as performance. The 204 Ruger has a bit more case capacity but tends to be a slower twist than the 20 Tac. Which is custom build only. Mine wears a 1 in 9” twist barrel and will shoot 32 to 50 grain bullets into single holes. The 204 R will usually shoot 32’s to 40’s, although some will only shoot 39’s not the 40’s in the standard factory twist rifles.
I have some H4895 which you can use for reduced loads I tried some they were very accurate and no doubt would be less destructive on rabbits. That said I am using 39 blitz kings at 3600fps atm and head shots still leave a useable carcass.
For foxes I have found the 39 blitz kings are very similar in terminal performance to the 22-250’s I have seen the firsthand results of.
Around 21 to 26 grains of suitable powders gets you a very accurate low recoil round. I can watch bullet strike with my rifle it is a pleasure to shoot.
After having issues with the drop in accuracy from the 17 HMR and the inconsistent ammo i got rid of it.
I lost all faith in it, no matter what CCI and the rest of the gang came out with i was never going back.
I had a 1 for 1 variation going in for a 17 centre fire. Undecided which one to go for my ticket was open for any 17 cf.
I looked around for a decent action, fell onto a Sako S491 and went for the daddy of the 17s.
As you squeeze off the trigger and send that 20 grain Vmax at 4400 fps it looks back on the 17 HMR and takes the mick big time.
The smile it put on your face forces your ears round to the back of your head.
My one regret is not having one before.
I lost all faith in it, no matter what CCI and the rest of the gang came out with i was never going back.
I had a 1 for 1 variation going in for a 17 centre fire. Undecided which one to go for my ticket was open for any 17 cf.
I looked around for a decent action, fell onto a Sako S491 and went for the daddy of the 17s.
As you squeeze off the trigger and send that 20 grain Vmax at 4400 fps it looks back on the 17 HMR and takes the mick big time.
The smile it put on your face forces your ears round to the back of your head.
My one regret is not having one before.
wildfowler.250
Well-Known Member
I really do love the HMR, accurate, ‘cheap’ and flat over all the ranges you’d use a .22 for. I’ve had some split cases but the billets always ended up in the right place so only an incidental finding after. And one hangfire which was a one off thankfully.
Hornady, in an attempt to lessen their costs, added a higher concentration of zinc to the brass. This resulted in splitting.~Muir
Do you know whether they changed things after the bad publicity received over many years Muir?
The very recent stuff I have seen seems to be faultless but I know lots of people's confidence is damaged beyond repair.
I'm sure they did. This caused them a bunch of grief.~Muir
When they 1st came out there were no issues with the ammo, i would buy 2 bricks of Federal probably 2-3 times a year, but then came the none existent quality control and the denial of any obvious cost cutting processes withing the manufacturing.
And as you said Cottis confidence went out of the window.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
I had a slot to buy one. But being in the shop and overhearing the conversation.
Basically a Non Disclosure agreement for a new rifle. The old one having blown the mag apart along with other damage. I changed it for a 222 and bought one of those instead.
For me the “I just check each round when I buy them” is not inspiring confidence.
I don’t check each round of 22lr or any centre fire factory ammunition I buy. I don’t expect to for anything else.
EDCM
Well-Known Member
Here we go again, I have put around 2000 through my HMR, I have never had a squib.
I have had one round that did not fire at all. I waited. took it out had a look, it had been struck Ok, so I put it back in and fired it no probs.
I have been using almost exclusively using Hornady 17gr Vmax the terminal results have also be faultless.
Eddie
I have had one round that did not fire at all. I waited. took it out had a look, it had been struck Ok, so I put it back in and fired it no probs.
I have been using almost exclusively using Hornady 17gr Vmax the terminal results have also be faultless.
Eddie
Musketeer
Well-Known Member
I have checked every round for the last two years and I have never found a split neck.
Eddie,
it wasnt the issue with the misfiring of rounds, which however you look at it is poor QC, it was the inconsistent accuracy that forced me to get rid of mine.
Shooting approximately 1500-2000 a year i was hardly a once a week type of shooter, if it wont hit the target it may as well go in the bin for me.
sir-lamp-alot
Well-Known Member
A .22 hornet is a nice little round theres a lot of c??p spoken about it but mine when i had it work reasonably well out to 200yards
.222 has fallen out of fasion over the years but its reputation for accuracy speaks volumes it was the 1st caliber i ever reloaded for and found it so easy and forgiving to work with and it would do everything and more than the hornet would
Other to think about would ****ibly be .17 remington, .204 or .223 but ive never owned any of them so can comment
.222 has fallen out of fasion over the years but its reputation for accuracy speaks volumes it was the 1st caliber i ever reloaded for and found it so easy and forgiving to work with and it would do everything and more than the hornet would
Other to think about would ****ibly be .17 remington, .204 or .223 but ive never owned any of them so can comment
I have had a 17 hornet now for a few years and its super, but not cheap to run on factory ammo (£1 per shot) and one previous chap was right its not easy to reload. Did have a 204 a few years ago and a very nice vermin round but most rifles seem to be fussy on factory ammo ? at least with a 204 you can buy a decent quality rifle, unfortunately there is little choice in the 17 hornet, cz or savage. i have a savage and although accurate the built quality is terrible.
I've had an HMR for ten years and put thousands of rounds through it and I've never found a single case that was split before firing. Plenty after firing but as it appears to make absolutely no difference to accuracy it's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
I have always used Winchester Supreme (the 17 grn BTs not the 20 grn hollows) and I've never had a single partial fire or lodged bullet. Had a few complete duds that wouldn't fire at all, though I could count them on the fingers of one hand and I've had those occasionally from all rimfire ammunition.
I like my HMR. The only niggle really is it's extremely cleaning fussy. You need to find the right routine for your rifle and stick to it religiously or it can become wayward.
Not sure what I'd replace it with if I had to. Probably one of the Hornets, the .22 it I was reloading, the .17 if not.
I've had a .222. It a cracking 250 yard rabbit round with eerie levels of accuracy but it hits them pretty hard. I used mine for mopping up hard to shoot spots from distance. Admittedly I was using exclusively Federal V.Shok 40 grn because they were phenomenally accurate in my rifle. Couldn't beat them even with hand loading. I never did a comparison but maybe there are less destructive choices. The .222 is a fantastic cartridge to shoot and cheap enough to reload but if you're shooting rabbits in high volume the throwaway HMR is hard to beat.
I have just had a little walk out to a perm across the road from my house. Farmer wanting a fox clearing as it’s been at his lambs. I forced myself to take the hmr. Fired 5 shots, 2 split cases but only after the shot was taken.
I may need to take it out a few more times before making any final decision.
The reloading thing (as much as I am just learning that too) is a consideration.
thinking about it further I think I will fill one of my slots with a 223. So it would be a rifle to replace the hmr, something 150-200 yard type range for rabbits
22lr close
Whatever I choose to replace the hmr for medium
223 and 243 for longer and fox
that is the way I’m thinking at the moment
it’s been great hearing everyones experience
I may need to take it out a few more times before making any final decision.
The reloading thing (as much as I am just learning that too) is a consideration.
thinking about it further I think I will fill one of my slots with a 223. So it would be a rifle to replace the hmr, something 150-200 yard type range for rabbits
22lr close
Whatever I choose to replace the hmr for medium
223 and 243 for longer and fox
that is the way I’m thinking at the moment
it’s been great hearing everyones experience
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
You make my point for me. What other factory ammunition do you check before firing?
If the answer is none then that is exactly why I didn’t bother buying one. I have seen the accuracy but safety is my primary concern. A round that has to be checked for split necks. Is not worth the hassle in my opinion.
Similar threads
