.243 or 6.5...

[Jagare]

Without actually realising it, @caberslash has inadvertently given some good advice.

Kind of.

What I mean is this. The .308 is an infinitely flexible cartridge, with a vast selection of bullet weights and types. It is dead easy to download to modest velocity; it’s far far easier to do this with a .308 that with a .243 or 6.5 because you can use bullets specifically designed for lower velocity, like the 30/30 bullets. In typical UK roe hunting environments, there’s no ballistic penalty to speak off, with the correct zero range you’re still dead on at well over 200m.

It is something to think about, after all I do exactly this myself. I have several loads for the .308 ranging from subsonic to a super-fast 125gr, a heavy and slow 180gr, and a general purpose 165gr. A bullet that would be fantastic for small roe deer is the Speer Gold Dot at moderate velocity, I’ve shot small yearling fallow does with this at 2,600fps MV and it mushrooms perfectly with next to no bloodshot, knocks them flat as a pancake. Another great option for roe is to follow my cuz’s method and use the 125gr Sierra FN 30/30 which in a .308 is about as perfect a bullet as you can get for an animal that is quite a bit lighter than a Labrador Retriever!

Back when Nosler made the Solid base boat tail bullet, the forerunner of the Nosler BT i used the 150grn SBBT for all my stalking. At the end of the production of Nosler SBBT I could only find the SBBT in 150 grn round nose for the .308. The only loading i could find was for the .30-30. So i carefully worked up a load for my .308. Every fallow i shot with that bullet, all shot with a chest shot went down as if struck by lightning. All the fallow went to the game dealer so I've no idea what meat damage there was.

 

[25 Sharps]

243, great choice of rounds from 50gr for foxes all the way through to 100gr Fallow capable, my mate shoots Reds with his 243 less than 200 yds and in the right place no problems. Also every gun shop will carry a range of 243 ammo. It’s not one of the most common calibers in the country for nothing and has stood the test of time, IMHO

Who makes a 50 gr 6 mm bullet?

its one of the most common calibres in the country because it’s just about the legal minimum for deer so the police push people in that direction because they don’t know any better.

The Op has a .222 for shooting 50 gr bullets, the 6.5 will do 90 to 160 gr bullets (or 85 if you have a supply squirreled away ) and can be loaded to higher energy levels as a result. every gun shop in the country doesn’t matter just those local, the most local to the OP carries about 12 different loadings in creedmoor....

edit. Make that 21, just checked

 

[Tazz]

Who makes a 50 gr 6 mm bullet?

its one of the most common calibres in the country because it’s just about the legal minimum for deer so the police push people in that direction because they don’t know any better.

The Op has a .222 for shooting 50 gr bullets, the 6.5 will do 90 to 160 gr bullets (or 85 if you have a supply squirreled away ) and can be loaded to higher energy levels as a result. every gun shop in the country doesn’t matter just those local, the most local to the OP carries about 12 different loadings in creedmoor....

edit. Make that 21, just checked

Winchester make 2 rounds in 243 50 gr, I accept the 6.5 in its various guises is a good round but so is the 243, everyone to their own, good job we don’t all agree with each other on SD or it would quickly peter out as a forum

 

[Heym SR20]

To the OP - nothing wrong with the 243, i have one and it is nice to shoot. But you already have a .222 so thats good for foxes and muntjac.

6.5cm is becoming very popular as it just works on all deer.

308 is also good as ammo is available everywhere and is now the standard calibre for all Forestry Commission England (or whatever they are called this week) Rangers etc.

Given your .222 you should be able to make an argument for either of the above.

If you get push back on the safety angle - a 222 is pretty lethal at 1km and bugger all (in real world) difference between 222 and 5.56 Nato which is reckoned to be lethal on man sized targets at 600 to 800m.

 

[25 Sharps]

Winchester make 2 rounds in 243 50 gr, I accept the 6.5 in its various guises is a good round but so is the 243, everyone to their own, good job we don’t all agree with each other on SD or it would quickly peter out as a forum

No they don't

Rifle Ammo | Winchester Ammunition

Winchester Ammunition manufactures quality, performance rifle ammo for hunting, sport- and recreational shooting.

winchester.com

 

[Stalker62]

.. good job we don’t all agree with each other on SD or it would quickly peter out as a forum

No they don't

Beautiful.
This stuff is priceless...

 

[25 Sharps]

Beautiful.
This stuff is priceless...

it was very intentional

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

I would always go for .308, with handloaded Barnes TTSX 130Gn bullets I'm getting ~3050FPS, it has knocked everything I've ever shot with it down on the spot and its very easy to shoot sub 0.25 MOA groups with, which give a huge degree of confidence when stalking.
My 6.5x47L (Barnes TTSX 100Gn going ~3150FPS) on the other hand, while just as accurate, doesn't pack anywhere near the same punch, out of the few deer I have shot with it I have had one runner (10 yards) but its obvious that the .308 hits harder and does the job better.

In terms of meat damage the .308 is no different to the 6.5, so with the right ammo you shouldn't suffer that way.

With regards to the 243 win, I feel with the potentially imminent phasing out of lead you potentially need to think ahead. With monolithic bullets, which in my experience work better than lead when used properly (lower bullet weight - higher velocity), you will potentially struggle to meet the guidelines with the 243 for all deer species, hence making the 6.5 and 308 a far better choice.

Just my opinion.
Ben

 

[Tazz]

it was very intentional

I bow to your greater knowledge I was 5 grains out thought their new lead free was 50 gr, you are now allowed to look smug!

 

[25 Sharps]

I bow to your greater knowledge I was 5 grains out thought their new lead free was 50 gr, you are now allowed to look smug!

I did think as I posted maybe lead free goes that low as lead core would be a stumpy bullet......... and I also found one site with 50 gr advertised but picture showed 55 gr packaging. But I thought my previous response proved your point nicely so went with it

 

[Tazz]

I did think as I posted maybe lead free goes that low as lead core would be a stumpy bullet......... and I also found one site with 50 gr advertised but picture showed 55 gr packaging. But I thought my previous response proved your point nicely so went with it

I have now double checked on 50 gr web search sadly none, white flag now unfurled!!! ( Still love my 243)

 

[25 Sharps]

I have now double checked on 50 gr web search sadly none, white flag now unfurled!!! ( Still love my 243)

Nowt wrong with .243, kills plenty of deer every year and !! If JK didn't already have the 0.222 its probably be the way that I would be advising him to go as you can shoot 55/58s for fox etc. and 80-100 for deer but as he wants to keep hold of his Grandad's BSA then for me the 6.5 makes sense as he will be able to shoot 40-60 (with right flat base bullet) with the deuce and 90-160 with the creedmoor which makes for more diversity than 40-100 with the 0.222 and .243 combination.

Just my humble opinion (but I am biased towards quarter bores, have 2 6.5s and a .25)

 

[JH83]

Got a 6.5 swede and a 243. The 6.5 is a bespoke build with a high mag Schmidt, 243 is a cheap knock about with a fixed 8 bought as a guest rifle. I’ve had all sorts of rifles and taken deer with .222 to 7mm RM.

The 243 has surprised me. If you listen to folks on here you’d think it’d bounce off the side of a red. Tbh it just flattens roe and well up to anything else I’m likely to encounter and that includes large woodland reds. To my mind it kills roe more definitively than anything else I have used, I suspect it leaves more ft lbs in the beast than larger calibres.

The swede is a damn good rifle, the perfect all rounder but I’m not certain I larder any more because of it.

 

[njc110381]

Got a 6.5 swede and a 243. The 6.5 is a bespoke build with a high mag Schmidt, 243 is a cheap knock about with a fixed 8 bought as a guest rifle. I’ve had all sorts of rifles and taken deer with .222 to 7mm RM.

The 243 has surprised me. If you listen to folks on here you’d think it’d bounce off the side of a red. Tbh it just flattens roe and well up to anything else I’m likely to encounter and that includes large woodland reds. To my mind it kills roe more definitively than anything else I have used, I suspect it leaves more ft lbs in the beast than larger calibres.

The swede is a damn good rifle, the perfect all rounder but I’m not certain I larder any more because of it.

That pretty much sums up my experience of the .243, but also outlines why I don't like it!

It'll kill deer, no doubt about that. I'd agree that it puts more energy into a small carcass than a larger calibre too. But with that comes carcass damage and that's what I have against the .243. Pretty much everything I've ever shot with it in a close range woodland situation has been badly bruised and I've lost meat. I shoot for the freezer and I don't like that. 6.5, being slower, has in my experience given much better results.

Bearing in mind that the .22 Hornet used to be the woodland roe stalker's calibre of choice before the deer acts, a roe doesn't need all 1700ft-lbs dumping in it to kill it. If you can knock it over and lose the rest of the energy in the backstop then great. The really good penetration of the 6.5's almost guarantees an exit on small deer.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I started with a .308 some 25 years or so ago.
Why? Because it was a cheap rifle and I could feed it with cheap ammunition.
At the time Lancashire Police were a pain with the conditions on FAC’s. End result if I wanted one rifle (all I could afford) and to shoot deer and foxes it was .243 or nowt.
Roll on my first a BSA CF2 lovely rifle accounted for many foxes and a few deer. I literally wore it out and without hesitation bought another all be it a CZ550.
However for many years having seen others use them and compared the ballistics etc I came to the conclusion that 6.5x55 would probably of been a better choice for my “one” rifle.
So why did I come to that conclusion? Well it was the largest round Lancs would give you for foxes (pre ALQ). Reasonable choice of secondhand rifles and ammunition easily available. We had Sika on our ground as well so the extra bullet weight was an advantage.
So eventually I got one, the added reason that Sauer do two versions of the 202 22-250 and 243 three lug bolt, 6.5x55 upward six lug. To keep a 270 and smaller calibre 6.5 was the only choice.
The non toxic question was a consideration too. There might well be a report recommending that the minimum weight be dropped to keep 243 legal. But that’s relying on politicians to do something sensible. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
I have a .222 6.5x55 and .270 all deer legal (location and species dependant) I believe it gives me a good spread for anything I might need.
I would quite happily have a 243 too who knows I might get a barrel made for the 202.
But my advice to my younger self would probably be get a 6.5 over a 243.

 

[243 fallow]

Evening all, so now lockdown is being eased I’ll be putting in a variation for a deer legal calibre, currently the biggest rifle I’ve got is .222. A friend has been taking me out stalking to satisfy the fao, and I’ve been taking his 6.5 creedmoor. I thought I wanted a .243 but after hearing his views on the 6.5’s I’m no longer sure. So...what are the pros and cons of each? Realistically I’ll be shooting a maximum of 150ish yards.

Don’t worry about about a 6.5 or a 243, you need a 2506 job done

 

[25 Sharps]

Don’t worry about about a 6.5 or a 243, you need a 2506 job done

limited to 70-120 gr Ish there though and less choice of both factory ammo and bullets for reloading...

 

[JH83]

That pretty much sums up my experience of the .243, but also outlines why I don't like it!

It'll kill deer, no doubt about that. I'd agree that it puts more energy into a small carcass than a larger calibre too. But with that comes carcass damage and that's what I have against the .243. Pretty much everything I've ever shot with it in a close range woodland situation has been badly bruised and I've lost meat. I shoot for the freezer and I don't like that. 6.5, being slower, has in my experience given much better results.

Bearing in mind that the .22 Hornet used to be the woodland roe stalker's calibre of choice before the deer acts, a roe doesn't need all 1700ft-lbs dumping in it to kill it. If you can knock it over and lose the rest of the energy in the backstop then great. The really good penetration of the 6.5's almost guarantees an exit on small deer.

There is certainly a point of diminishing return with regard to terminal performance and damage. I think I prefer to paste them to the floor and worry about damage later, I’ve never seen anything too awful from the 243, nor the 25 06 I had for 10 years. I run the swede very hot, 100gn TTSX at a nip below 3400fps as well. The main reason for this is I was getting far too many runners with factory ammo, sika at dusk waltzing off into the spruce plantings gets hellish frustrating!

 

[njc110381]

There is certainly a point of diminishing return with regard to terminal performance and damage. I think I prefer to paste them to the floor and worry about damage later, I’ve never seen anything too awful from the 243, nor the 25 06 I had for 10 years. I run the swede very hot, 100gn TTSX at a nip below 3400fps as well. The main reason for this is I was getting far too many runners with factory ammo, sika at dusk waltzing off into the spruce plantings gets hellish frustrating!

It depends a lot on your deer and ground I suppose. I wish I'd kept records of what I've shot but I guess between 500-1000 deer. I've lost two. But the ground is a well managed estate and they rarely make it far enough to escape or get lost. They drop on the spot, maybe make 50 yards sometimes. But 50 yards tracking on my ground is easy. Usually I glance around from the kill site and I'll spot it!

If I'm in a small area or one with cover the 95gr V-max come out and I neck shoot. They're loaded as hot as I can safely get them and will near cut the head off of a small deer. That usually nails them on the spot.

 

[booradley]

Let’s see largest animal will be roe deer and maximum distance 150 meters. IMO the 6.5 Creedmoor is overkill and .243 almost so. I have a .243 and a 6.5x55 in a modern action. I don’t believe either is really at an advantage over the other if used within the OP’s parameters. I’d also hunt red deer and boar with a .243 if that was all I had, but would rather have something more powerful(I do). But since a .222 is in hand it makes more sense to me to get a Creedmoor in case the opportunity to shoot larger game ever presents itself.