.45-70 for Deer (England)?

[Bowland blades]

In August/September stalking prickets in the deep wood, when a shot is at a max of 50yds I would naturally pick the 45-70 over all of my other rifles. It's light, quick and accurate, and it is above all else authoritative!!
I would also choose it if targeting muntjac in Mid winter for the same reasons.
And it also produces a lot less meat damage!!

I am sure it would work great in the wood . I have actually seen muntjac shot with a 45-70 and tTSX , it was not minimum damage whatsoever very much overkill and messy . Yet the 260 (6.5mm) with tTSX 100 grain has been stella for me , i like the 223 but i have experienced less than perfect performance on CWD not having the authority to put them down unless the shot was perfect. The 260 on them ? no bother at all death rush feet not yards! Same as i use on the Reds even at longer ranges ( actually further than many will or can with that same 100 grn bullet ) Its rare to not get an exit on the big ones none the less

 

[Greener Jim]

its a fair bit more powder actually on a full stack 308 and a full stack 45 -70 the 308 will have more usable range and can only run a 200 grain bullet max as std 48 grain compressed 2571fps , you can get 67 grains max in a 45-70 for just 2228 fps thats like 20 grains of powder or to put it another way a full capacity 223 of extra powder .
No not a wild guess LOL
Its really my " practical " scenario proved i feel . I have no trouble over just having fun and shooting some off the wall type guns and just plain having fun . Someone wants a 45-70 get one you only live the one life

I was purely commenting on the costs, and Stu has shown with his data that it isn't expensive to run. I also showed that TTSX bullets aren't overwhelmingly expensive either.
Again, in the role it will be used by Chris it is not an expensive rifle to run in the slightest. Even "full stack" with TTSX wouldn't be considering the lesser use.

The practicality side of it I genuinely don't care, it makes no odds to me.

 

[jimmer.13]

Mine is conditioned for Boar and deer.
Close range woodland stalking it’s a pleasure to use. As Stu says factory ammunition can be pricey but no more than 300wm or even some 30-06. Deffo cheaper than most lead free and roughly a quid a pop if you load your own.

 

[stubear]

Are those cheaper loads full stack with all uk deer legality ? To be honest i have only shot tTSX in the 45-70 and they where frightening expensive

Oh god yes - there’s not much that walks away from a 405gn soft point at 1600ft/s.

It’s about the same energy as a .308 from the numbers I’ve run.

Even trapdoor loads hit 1750ft/lb

I’ve done some proper feisty loads which hit 1850ft/s and were in the 7RM energy range but they did also detach your retinas when you pull the trigger

 

[25 Sharps]

Being silly now with the above . Legal is important! Things like expanding in a predictable manner and of course it is heavy in recoil , the fact you can put a weaker load is just makes it illegal under certain deer legislation and while any all deer legal 243 - 308 is the range which most of our regular deer cartridges can shoot large or small deer very well to 300 yards in the right hands much further again! that's a big challenge with a 45-70 and yeah it is a big old wallop that comes back at you.
Hey yeah they can put a big smile on your face , blowing up milk cartons , general fun at the range ringing Hardox plates etc .. That's a different thing entirely from uk deerstalking . If faced with a big angry bear at 50 yards ? yeah a 45-70 would be rather a good thing to have , driven boar likewise. with due attention to range and accuracy limitations

Expanding in a predictable manner is not a legal requirement in most of the UK.

As for power it will top 3000 ft-lb easily, and nudge 4000 with H4198 which is unfortunately no longer a viable.

Lots of people out there with short barrel .243s or .243s shooting 80 fee bullets, that are below legal limit.

You’re talking rubbish for the sake of talking. AS ALWAYS!!

 

[25 Sharps]

Oh god yes - there’s not much that walks away from a 405gn soft point at 1600ft/s.

It’s about the same energy as a .308 from the numbers I’ve run.

Even trapdoor loads hit 1750ft/lb

I’ve done some proper feisty loads which hit 1850ft/s and were in the 7RM energy range but they did also detach your retinas when you pull the trigger

I’ve managed to get a little over a tub of IMR4198 which will be paired with 250 gr monoflex for some very punchy loads.

 

[Greener Jim]

I’ve managed to get a little over a tub of IMR4198 which will be paired with 250 gr monoflex for some very punchy loads.

That'll be spicy!

 

[stubear]

How do the PPUs shoot Stu?

Not bad at all in my rifle thankfully! I’d say probably a 1.5-2” group at 100y or thereabouts.

They’re a good bullet too, perform very similar to the Remington core lokt in my experience so definitely worth a look. I got mine from Kranks

 

[stubear]

In August/September stalking prickets in the deep wood, when a shot is at a max of 50yds I would naturally pick the 45-70 over all of my other rifles. It's light, quick and accurate, and it is above all else authoritative!!
I would also choose it if targeting muntjac in Mid winter for the same reasons.
And it also produces a lot less meat damage!!

Agree about the carcass damage, that’s very reasonable even up close.

Certainly less than the palm of my hand even with deer shot at 50y or so.

Honestly some of the worst damage I’ve ever seen was a roe shot with 75gn Nosler BTs out of a .243. Explosive didn’t even start to cover it!

 

[tackb]

Being silly now with the above . Legal is important! Things like expanding in a predictable manner and of course it is heavy in recoil , the fact you can put a weaker load is just makes it illegal under certain deer legislation and while any all deer legal 243 - 308 is the range which most of our regular deer cartridges can shoot large or small deer very well to 300 yards in the right hands much further again! that's a big challenge with a 45-70 and yeah it is a big old wallop that comes back at you.
Hey yeah they can put a big smile on your face , blowing up milk cartons , general fun at the range ringing Hardox plates etc .. That's a different thing entirely from uk deerstalking . If faced with a big angry bear at 50 yards ? yeah a 45-70 would be rather a good thing to have , driven boar likewise. with due attention to range and accuracy limitations

You started it !

You are more reliable than a Japanese car

I could agree with you but then we’d both be wrong.

Good day.

 

[alberta boy]

I think a lot of the issues raised about the 45/70 in the UK stem from your velocity requirements . They weren't drawn up with black powder cartridges in mind and call for velocities that aren't needed for the cartridge to kill cleanly within it's useful range . We don't have those restrictions here so most people still hunt game with lower velocities than would be legal in the UK . I've killed a number of big game animals with various 45/70s loaded to black powder velocities using lead bullets . I settled on a 405 gr hard cast , gas checked bullet at 1600 fps years ago . It is a few hundred fps faster than the trap door loading , but they're easy on the shoulder and , more importantly , kill things very quickly with very little tissue damage . I can honestly say that I put most 45/70 chambered rifles in the middle when it comes to recoil levels , I don't find it excessive with reasonable loadings . Unfortunately , a lot of people equate higher velocity with efficiency and pick up the hottest loaded ammo they can find when they first start shooting a 45/70 , a lot of which are very uncomfortable to shoot in a hunting weight rifle . I have cast my own bullets over the years , but I can buy 500 of them locally for about $75 CDN so I no longer bother making my own . My brass lasts forever at these low pressures and it burns less powder than my 30/06 . It's actually one of my most economical cartridges to shoot . That being said , the above bears little relevance to component costs or suitability in the UK . The 45/70s reputation , along with a number of its contemporaries . was built on its original black powder loading , not the later high velocity versions , most people seem to have forgotten that .

AB

 

[Smellydog]

Ive always fancied a Springfield and run it on black powder loads with soft lead.
I would also try to get to shoot ball or two round ball for small game or for ***** n giggles.

 

[25 Sharps]

That'll be spicy!

I can’t see the point of buying a canon and turning into a pea shooter

 

[Greener Jim]

I can’t see the point of buying a canon and turning into a pea shooter

I'm limited on velocity so would go heavier with my 45. 730gr cast lives in my mind rent free

 

[25 Sharps]

I'm limited on velocity so would go heavier with my 45. 730gr cast lives in my mind rent free

That would be a long old bullet I’d guess, I have some 500 cast and they are long, have to be single loaded in the marlin

 

[Greener Jim]

That would be a long old bullet I’d guess, I have some 500 cast and they are long, have to be single loaded in the marlin

The 730gr is 1mm shorter than a 222 Rem case

 

[Klenchblaize]

I feel the Op should consider upgrading to the 35 Whelen.

K

 

[25 Sharps]

I feel the Op should consider upgrading to the 35 Whelen.

K

I am Considering getting rid of the beige .308 and going 7 PRC or havin a Whelen built……

 

[tackb]

Does the brass only last that long? Is it the primer pockets going slack that finishes it?

i also run a 45/120 and i'm pretty sure the case will last much longer , the primer doesn't go slack you are more likley to experience case cracks from becoming brittle or in my case serious corrosion because i use black powder.

 

[Smellydog]

i also run a 45/120 and i'm pretty sure the case will last much longer , the primer doesn't go slack you are more likley to experience case cracks from becoming brittle or in my case serious corrosion because i use black powder.

How do you clean yours?
Ive heard of folk putting them in a dish washer. Have you tried it?
I tried it with brass 12g hulls, wasn't brilliant ...