6.5 Swede vs Creed?

[nun_hunter]

Which goes to show that when comparing the qualities of various calibre and bullet solutions

Continuously comparing them against the needs of an average stalker - where just about anything will do- is pretty pointless

The differences appear when applying them in the precision/ competition / ELR arenas

What's more important and relevant to the average stalker is bullet choice and terminal velocity.

It doesn't really matter what the bullet was put in to make it reach the deer but how fast it's going when it gets there and what type of bullet it is does matter. Both those variables are also relevant to where the bullet is intended to strike.

 

[tackb]

As the range increases lighter more frangible bullets will reliably still expand , where a heavy / tough bonded or copper mono bullet might not .
Just saying , it all comes down to knowing what happens to your ammo at various ranges

i use ELD-M 140gr bullets and used to use amax , inside 150m they are fragile but not an issue if you head or neck , beyond that they have slowed down enough to perform very well as a traditional bullet , best of all worlds as long as you pick the correct shot

 

[tackb]

Indeed. I'm up to four now. Two AI's (AI-AT and ATX) for competitions, a Tikka CTR rebarreled in 6.5CM for hunting (previously was a .260), and a Savage Model 10 in 6.5CM (my first Creedmoor match rifle, back when there were no factory offered rifles).

It is a very versatile cartridge.

coincedentally my stalking rifle was 260rem before i rebarrelled in creed , i had a 260 before they were cool and also rebarrelled in creed before they were cool !

 

[Bowland blades]

coincedentally my stalking rifle was 260rem before i rebarrelled in creed , i had a 260 before they were cool and also rebarrelled in creed before they were cool !

Interesting in the fact that although the 6mm creed is gaining some popularity fast but the 243 win is still doing more than holding on . Away from comps my view is 260 rem is the better deer rifle as with copper Barnes 100 grain TTSX there is no real bullet base intruding well into the case capacity (N150 ) 3300fps . Been looking at the 6mm creed for a NV rifle and the only issue seems to be getting the correct twist for the longer 100 grain 6mm but then do we need that long a bullet with the change in Scotland Weight limits ? Gosh i have killed a lot of stuff with the old 243. Will short frangible lead hold up in the faster twists ? not sure they will tbf
In Short UK hunters have a different need to PRS shooters.
Will wait and research

 

[6pt-sika]

I’ve owned I think six rifles chambered for 6.5x55 all Mausers except one CZ 550-FS and they all shot my handloads very well . I’ve also owned a bunch of 260 REM’s and still own one with a 5R HB that’s suppressed it’s a consistent 1/4 MOA rifle . Had a Savage LRP that would do the same . I’ve worked up loads for a number of local folks for Savage LRP’s in Creedmoor but I’ve yet to actually buy a Creedmoor . I have a pair of Mannlicher Schoenauer stutzens in 6.5x54 MS one a Model 1903 the other a Model MC . Now cut to the chase you could put a rifle chambered for each cartridge in a bag shake it up and use the first one that rolled out and I’d not feel at a loss . In practical hunting purposes there is no practical difference .

 

[Ronin]

A good deal to be said in favour of both the 6.5/55 and 260

Neither outdone by the creedmoor

Will they all be available in 100 years

,,,,


Not my issue

I suspect all will be, though there will likely be another “must have “ bettween now and then

 

[Bowland blades]

A good deal to be said in favour of both the 6.5/55 and 260

Neither outdone by the creedmoor

Will they all be available in 100 years

,,,,


Not my issue

I suspect all will be, though there will likely be another “must have “ bettween now and then

260 rem is pretty hard to find factory ammo in now . If its to be here in 100 years that needs to change as regards availability factory rifles. My main deer rifle was built in 260 but with all these " factory ammo only" Venues I see another medium / large rifle entering my cabinet for such locations .
Its not a real big issue 99% of the time and it is not a problem to size up 243 win or size down 7-08 /308. Daft thing was i sold a perfectly good 7-08 about ten years or so back because it was tough getting suited 7mm bullets from stock then

 

[Bowland blades]

Oh i love using the 260rem 100 grain TTSX , perfect for all uk deer

 

[tackb]

A good deal to be said in favour of both the 6.5/55 and 260

Neither outdone by the creedmoor

Will they all be available in 100 years

,,,,


Not my issue

I suspect all will be, though there will likely be another “must have “ bettween now and then

And neither outdoes the creedmoor so as everyone is saying , they are all much of a muchness

unless you want or have to use factory ammo then the creed shines , and i dare say but i haven’t checked recently that far more rifles are available in the current darling calibre of creed ?

But you can be sure that in the next 100 years a new 6.4/6.6MM croodmax will be along and if well supported and marketed it will be a success , and people will still use the old fashioned creedmoor or 55 or 47 or even the 260 rem

 

[bowji john]

What's more important and relevant to the average stalker is bullet choice and terminal velocity.

It doesn't really matter what the bullet was put in to make it reach the deer but how fast it's going when it gets there and what type of bullet it is does matter. Both those variables are also relevant to where the bullet is intended to strike.

Yup

Fair one

Terminal ballistics is a fascinating topic

Of course bullet choice is important

Good point

J

 

[Utectok]

What's more important and relevant to the average stalker is bullet choice and terminal velocity.

It doesn't really matter what the bullet was put in to make it reach the deer but how fast it's going when it gets there and what type of bullet it is does matter. Both those variables are also relevant to where the bullet is intended to strike.

That’s definitely true! I also like to see the bullet strike in my scope and in that respect lighter recoiling calibres have merit.

 

[Ronin]

The OP specifically states they home load in original post

So the “it’s not available or easily found in factory ammo is a non starter”

 

[6pt-sika]

I’m in West Virginia in the USA tonight , Monday is there deer opener and I thought I’d give it a try at my cousins weekend cabin . It kinda relates to this thread as I brought three rifles first my Mannlicher Schoenauer stutzen MC in 6.5x54 MS for nice days from a tree stand , my Remington 700 5R fluted HB in 260 REM for long shots over his small orchard and finally my semi custom Remington 700 in 6.5-06 for Rainey weather . As you may imagine I don’t shoot factory all handloads and as you also may suspect they all do very nicely with my handloads 140 Nosler BT’s and AB’s in the 6.5x54 MS and the Hornady 129 SST in the 260 as well as the 6.5-06 .

 

[Foxyboy43]

I’m in West Virginia in the USA tonight , Monday is there deer opener and I thought I’d give it a try at my cousins weekend cabin . It kinda relates to this thread as I brought three rifles first my Mannlicher Schoenauer stutzen MC in 6.5x54 MS for nice days from a tree stand , my Remington 700 5R fluted HB in 260 REM for long shots over his small orchard and finally my semi custom Remington 700 in 6.5-06 for Rainey weather . As you may imagine I don’t shoot factory all handloads and as you also may suspect they all do very nicely with my handloads 140 Nosler BT’s and AB’s in the 6.5x54 MS and the Hornady 129 SST in the 260 as well as the 6.5-06 .

Nice - a guy can never have enough guns! Hope you get all nice days - that Mannlicher will just make you grin with every shot!

 

[smokey]

Folks, what is the real life difference between these two calibers if you home load? I’m asking purely from an academic point of view as I realise they will be very similar.

6.5x55 has larger case capacity. Can it outperform the 6.5CM if home loaded? Would you have to load the Swede very ‘hot’ just to keep up with a standard 6.5CM round?

Does the 6.5CM use a faster burning powder than the Swede so it does better in a smaller case?


My main curiosity is that I picked out a Swede for the old man and I’ve used it occasionally. Effective caliber although I was surprised how much the trajectory changed over 200 yards compared to my .270. That being said, if I was buying new now, the creedmoor does seem like the sensible choice.


As a side note, which is your favourite 6.5 bullet? Our Swede seems to shoot 140 grain bullets better than 120. Currently using 143 eldx, very accurate but quite a lot of bruising!

Ok so first off there is old 6.5 swede & New 6.5 Swede(SKAN) 6.5 skan is most modern rifles and the reloading data is much different ?Beware!
I Have not owned a 6.5 CR but have a number of friends who do have them and the only real difference is the 6.5cr has much higher pressure and as such a shorter barrel life. Acouple of mates are using 6.5 cr on deer with S & B Lead free ammo and rate it highly not a lot to go one but accurate info

 

[stevenedwards]

I have both in near identical rifles. I have just a little more confidence with the 6.5x55 for some reason and it offers a little more velocity for what that's worth. Yew Tree 114t works very well for me in it

 

[6pt-sika]

Nice - a guy can never have enough guns! Hope you get all nice days - that Mannlicher will just make you grin with every shot!

I failed to mention I brought along two Parker 10 gauge shotguns setup with handloaded slugs , punkin balls and buckshot . I was out bright and early this morning atleast twenty minutes before legal shooting time . In most states here big game is okay thirty minutes before sunrise until thirty minutes after sunset . Anyway I was up my tree and had along my 6.5x54 MS and a Parker Grade 1 10 gauge top lever hammer gun with factory original 26" open shoked barrels . At 07:05 AM a 4 point whitetail ambled up and I killed him at about 35 yards . I set a bit longer and at 08:15 AM a pair of doe deer came up behind me and a plunked the larger one at about 45 yards .Shot both with the 6.5x54 MS , however the buck was killed with a Nosler 140 BT handload and the doe was done in with a Nosler 140 AccuBond . Those were the fifth and sixth deer I've killed with that rifle . All six were killed with 140 grainers but all six were killed with different brand or type of 140 grainers . And I never had to change the sight in . When I worked up loads for the little rifle I tried one of each load at 50 yards for a 6 shot group then did the same thing at 100 yards , all were close enough that any change was unecessary . Certainly if I was shooting it much past 150 or so yards I'd need to refine the sight in a bit . But this gun hasn't been anywhere with me but in kinda thick woods where 100 yards is a long shot . Tommorrow will be 6.5-06 day !

 

[6pt-sika]

Can I add the 6.5 x 57 to the mix? In a roundabout way, it supports the Swede.

The story is I fancied a Sauer 202 in 0.270, but found no RH ones for sale. However on this excellent forum were two fine people who each had a 202 with both 6.5 x 57 and .270 barrels (as you know, the Sauer barrels are interchangeable with the same bolt). One seller wanted to keep the .270 barrel, the other wanted to keep the gun in 6.5 x 57, so I bought a complete Sauer 202 in 6.5 x 57 from the first chap and the 0.270 barrel from the second.

I thought the extra 6.5 x 57 barrel that resulted from these transactions would be redundant but this Creedmore fashion got me thinking, fuelled by Ron Spomer's great little article on the x55 and x57 on 6.5x57mm Mauser — Ron Spomer Outdoors.

It looks like simply changing the powder, one can make a 6.5 x 55 Swede or 6.5 x 57 Mauser round, do all a Creedmore can do and a lot more: one can make it quieter and 100fps slower, or zip it up 200fps faster than the CM. All these 6.5s take the same bullets, so anything the manufacturers have done to promote the CM fad feeds straight into the 120 year old Swedes and Mausers.

Given all of this, with Swedes and Mausers available at much lower prices, why would anyone who can reload buy a CM?

I’ve wanted a 6.5x57 for quite sometime just never been able to find it n a rifle I like . A 6.5x57R would be quite Intresting in a drilling .

 

[Foxyboy43]

I failed to mention I brought along two Parker 10 gauge shotguns setup with handloaded slugs , punkin balls and buckshot . I was out bright and early this morning atleast twenty minutes before legal shooting time . In most states here big game is okay thirty minutes before sunrise until thirty minutes after sunset . Anyway I was up my tree and had along my 6.5x54 MS and a Parker Grade 1 10 gauge top lever hammer gun with factory original 26" open shoked barrels . At 07:05 AM a 4 point whitetail ambled up and I killed him at about 35 yards . I set a bit longer and at 08:15 AM a pair of doe deer came up behind me and a plunked the larger one at about 45 yards .Shot both with the 6.5x54 MS , however the buck was killed with a Nosler 140 BT handload and the doe was done in with a Nosler 140 AccuBond . Those were the fifth and sixth deer I've killed with that rifle . All six were killed with 140 grainers but all six were killed with different brand or type of 140 grainers . And I never had to change the sight in . When I worked up loads for the little rifle I tried one of each load at 50 yards for a 6 shot group then did the same thing at 100 yards , all were close enough that any change was unecessary . Certainly if I was shooting it much past 150 or so yards I'd need to refine the sight in a bit . But this gun hasn't been anywhere with me but in kinda thick woods where 100 yards is a long shot . Tommorrow will be 6.5-06 day !

Excellent! Sounds like you are having fun…..

 

[wildfowler.250]

Interesting reading folks. There does seem to be very little in it.

I have to say that using the 6.5x55 , I’m still getting my head around the slightly more pronounced trajectory compared to the .270 that I’m used to. It does seem to shoot the 143 grain eldx really well but are these ‘heavy for caliber’ bullets not mainly an advantage for longer range shooting? They still cause a fair mess.

Did try the 120 prohunters but just not quite as good. I assume the nolser BTs will shoot comparably? They were like hens teeth at the time of reloading so never got round to them