6.5x55 or .308

[The deer man]

The only two advantages I could see of the 6.5x55 over the 308 would be one lower recoil and possibly an advantage over 500m stalking deer. Other than that the 308 has quite a bit more energy with a short action case, mostly less powder, makes a bigger hole, can use heavier bullets. Seems less finicky with ammo (they say a 308 shoots nails) and has the advantage of more ammo available. In Ireland some stalkers had to use target ammo for deer as nothing else was available for the 6.5. The swedes were stuck with this cal and had to make do on Elk etc. I think it is a disgrace, the cartridge needed heavy deep penetrating bullets such as the lapua mega, which are now often used on smaller deer. These bullets mostly just pencil through if they don't hit bone with runners as a result.
Sorry I have spent enough time and ruined hunting days trying to find deer shot by the 6.5 that I won't hunt with anyone using one anymore.
I think it is much easier to choose or getting a 30cal bullet to work properly on the deer than the smaller 6.5 . I believe the 6.5 will work with the right bullet choice and the right man at the tiller however many do not have the know-how and just pick up a box of ammo or a box of what is available at the gun shop, with a 308 one will have a much better chance of picking up a cartridge that will put the deer down quicker. Why would we want to let the deer suffer unnecessarily.
I stick with it, for deer stalking the 308 is better in theory and better in the field than a 6.5x55.
edi

Well I think Muir has said it all. If you can't ensure the correct hunting bullet is used you could have many a ruined hunting day irrespective of calibre. I own and hunted both these calibres and with correct bullet selection they are both very fine hunting choices.

Having said that if James can't decide which to choose why not go for 7mm-08? Best of both worlds, soft shooting and holds up with the 308 at range!

 

[Southern]

Having said that if James can't decide which to choose why not go for 7mm-08? Best of both worlds, soft shooting and holds up with the 308 at range!

Especially if you reload. From a 24-inch rifle, factory ammo runs 120-gr at 3,000, 140-gr at 2,800, and 154-gr at 2,650. Recoil almost as low as the 6.5x55.

 

[Muir]

Of course an expert who chooses the right bullet and is a trained capable rifle shooter would not need a 308 to kill a deer, he could possibly do that with a 22lr. The problem starts with the average rifleman, not even mentioning the lower end of skill. This huge portion of hunters are in my book better off with the 308. In like for like situations the chance of a quicker kill is given. For the welfare of the deer I'd rather see a beginner with a 308 than a 6.5. He is less likely to choose the wrong bullet and can dump more energy into a deer...hopefully killing it quicker.
None of us have to worry about the top 20% of deer stalkers who are experienced and can make decisions based on good knowledge. They'll take deer with 243/6.5/30cal almost equally well. At least they'll more likely know when not to take the shot.
I don't know why some think that the critique on the 6.5 performance is something new, I recon this has been the case since good 100 years and even the 6.5x64 Brenneke was designed due to the lack of performance of the 6.5x57. Many rifles were then re-chambered to the larger case.
Generally we hear very little complaints regarding performance of cartridges such as 8x57, 30-06, 308, 7x64, even 7x57, 7-08 vs 243 or 6.5x55.
edi

Well. There you go! I know that lots of hunters use 243 but I will no longer hunt in a party where a man is carrying a 243 because I've seen it wound too many deer. I have had enough experience using the 6.5x55 to not consider it in the came class of up-taken varmint rifles as the 243.

If there is a problem with the 6.5x55, and I acknowledge it is a problem, it is the severe underloading of the cartridge both at the factory and presented in loading data that maxes pressures at about 50K PSI where the smaller capacity 260 Remington runs at 60K. Most factory ammo is anemic at best. PPU 140 grain averaged just over 2500 fps. Federal 140 is around 2600 fps. Both rounds, however, are fine killers of deer; just not what they could be if brought to modern pressure and performance levels. Like Winchester did with the 257 Roberts, makers could poroduce a "6.5x55 +P" (added power) load for modern rifles. Unfortunately, they seem loathe to do so. Powder makers could produce two sets of data for the 6.5x55: One for weaker guns, and one for modern, stronger guns. Multiple data sets are nothing new: it is done for 45 Colt, 38 Special, and most notably, for the 45-70 where typically three sets of data are provided for three different classes of weapons.

If these changes were made you'd probably see a change in attitude towards the 6.5x55, but even as it stands, with the proper bullet selection and bullet placement, the 6.5 is a fine deer cartridge.~Muir

 

[Sidewinder]

Calibre food fight, you gota love it ......Man you boys have lot of time on your hands, get back to the party!

With my 6.5-284, I have no problem taking a deer down at 400 yards, but would never do that with my 308, but that's just me. Its all about effectively placing said crosshairs on said target and pressing the trigger.

-Z

 

[Canadian1]

308 is the better hunting cartridge.
edi

Quantify that statement. Oh right, you can't.


OP, either will do the exact same thing. Depending on load, there will be some differences in external ballistics, but for practical purposes your animals will not notice a difference.

 

[RickoShay]

Have shot .308 for many years, in some of the world's most accurate rifles in challenging conditions; however in stalking I have found the 6.5x55 with 140gr, a delightful, smooth performing, recoil light cartridge to use. I have no dispute that .30 cal stamps greater authority, but at the sub-200m ranges I shoot deer at the Sauer 202 6.5x55 is my go to rifle and has accuracy in abundance.
Why not take the opportunity to try out both calibre's and visit someone like Steve Beaty at Ivythorn? You will at least then have made an informed decision.
Think there was a thread recently (amongst many others) about putting "the right bullet in the right place..." and the deer fall over.

 

[stephentri]

Well. There you go! I know that lots of hunters use 243 but I will no longer hunt in a party where a man is carrying a 243 because I've seen it wound too many deer. I have had enough experience using the 6.5x55 to not consider it in the came class of up-taken varmint rifles as the 243.

If there is a problem with the 6.5x55, and I acknowledge it is a problem, it is the severe underloading of the cartridge both at the factory and presented in loading data that maxes pressures at about 50K PSI where the smaller capacity 260 Remington runs at 60K. Most factory ammo is anemic at best. PPU 140 grain averaged just over 2500 fps. Federal 140 is around 2600 fps. Both rounds, however, are fine killers of deer; just not what they could be if brought to modern pressure and performance levels. Like Winchester did with the 257 Roberts, makers could poroduce a "6.5x55 +P" (added power) load for modern rifles. Unfortunately, they seem loathe to do so. Powder makers could produce two sets of data for the 6.5x55: One for weaker guns, and one for modern, stronger guns. Multiple data sets are nothing new: it is done for 45 Colt, 38 Special, and most notably, for the 45-70 where typically three sets of data are provided for three different classes of weapons.

If these changes were made you'd probably see a change in attitude towards the 6.5x55, but even as it stands, with the proper bullet selection and bullet placement, the 6.5 is a fine deer cartridge.~Muir

Thats why if you reloade you can get the psi up to 60k and get the true potential out of the 6.5x55

 

[Muir]

Thats why if you reloade you can get the psi up to 60k and get the true potential out of the 6.5x55

That would be nice but you need to just watch the cases very carefully... Unless you have a pressure gun in your reloading gear and can assure yourself that there were no excursions over 60K in your testing! It would be hard to target a specific figure otherwise.~Muir

 

[stephentri]

That would be nice but you need to just watch the cases very carefully... Unless you have a pressure gun in your reloading gear and can assure yourself that there were no excursions over 60K in your testing! It would be hard to target a specific figure otherwise.~Muir

Ok but you know what I mean you can home load safety and still get better fps than factory loads

 

[stecad]

Got 2x308s and 1x6.5 and they all drop deer on the spot if I do my bit.
I tried a lot of rifles before buying ones that I felt comfortable carrying, handling and shooting. It's then a matter of load development and trigger time. Get a rifle that you're comfortable with and the calibre (270, 6.5, 308, etc) is almost irrelevant when you're north of 120grn expanding heads. I do have an issue with sub 100grn once the range gets beyond 200 yds, I.e 243 at range. My 243 is my rifle of choice for close in stalking on roe and smaller. Anything bigger is 308 or 6.5 territory (occasionally 375HH) depending on how I feel when I open the gun cabinet.
Recently returned from Tromso, Norway - crackin museum on Polar exploration and Norwegian hunting (I'm sure it would have been shut down by PC councils and Eco warriors if it was in the UK). This place is a celebration of the 6.5 Swede as this was a readily available calibre in the Krag with 140grn FMJ being used to shoot everything from seals, walrus and Polar bear. English colonies show a preference for 30 cal for hunting as this was the easiest (303) rifle to get hold of.
Historically people used what they could get thier hands on. Nowadays we're fussing over nothing as history shows they'll all kill when pointed in the right direction.
Buy what you're comfortable with and practice. Shot placement is everything.

 

[ejg]

Quantify that statement. Oh right, you can't.


OP, either will do the exact same thing. Depending on load, there will be some differences in external ballistics, but for practical purposes your animals will not notice a difference.

Bigger bullet, bigger hole, higher energy. Is that not enough?
If one upgrades from say small deer to larger deer which way would you improve the cartridge? smaller or larger?
Of course the animals will notice a difference, in theory and in practice.

edi

 

[The deer man]

Bigger bullet, bigger hole, higher energy. Is that not enough?
If one upgrades from say small deer to larger deer which way would you improve the cartridge? smaller or larger?
Of course the animals will notice a difference, in theory and in practice.

edi

Well . . . standard loads for the 6.5x55, .260 and 7mm08 using a 140gr soft point carry similar or more energy than the .308 using the same soft point of 150g from 200 yards and beyond. Under 200 yards is of no consequence.

The sectional density of the 6.5 and 7mm bullets are also better than the 308 for these above loads - so better penetration.
You would need to go to a 165gr bullet for the 308 sectional density to come near or the same as the 6.5x55, .260 and 7mm-08 yet the energy is within 100 ft/lbs at 500 yards between all four.

So, will the animal notice the difference in theory and practice - I very much doubt it! All four will do the job equally well on any UK deer. Where they differ is in the smoothness and lower recoil of how they shoot and that is where like it or not the 308 is beaten.

I guess everyone with a .280 Rem, 7x64, 7mm Rem Mag should think about "upgrading" to a 308 because it's a bigger hole you know!?

 

[Canadian1]

Well . . . standard loads for the 6.5x55, .260 and 7mm08 using a 140gr soft point carry similar or more energy than the .308 using the same soft point of 150g from 200 yards and beyond. Under 200 yards is of no consequence.

The sectional density of the 6.5 and 7mm bullets are also better than the 308 for these above loads - so better penetration.
You would need to go to a 165gr bullet for the 308 sectional density to come near or the same as the 6.5x55, .260 and 7mm-08 yet the energy is within 100 ft/lbs at 500 yards between all four.

So, will the animal notice the difference in theory and practice - I very much doubt it! All four will do the job equally well on any UK deer. Where they differ is in the smoothness and lower recoil of how they shoot and that is where like it or not the 308 is beaten.

I guess everyone with a .280 Rem, 7x64, 7mm Rem Mag should think about "upgrading" to a 308 because it's a bigger hole you know!?

Reasonable discourse is unlikely to sway the opinion of this particular fellow.

Not unlike the other poster who feels that approaching 60,000psi and 3000fps is only then extracting "maximum performance" out of the 6.5x55

Less time reading forum fable and ballistic tables and more time shooting and hunting might change their minds, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[Canadian1]

Bigger bullet, bigger hole, higher energy. Is that not enough?
If one upgrades from say small deer to larger deer which way would you improve the cartridge? smaller or larger?
Of course the animals will notice a difference, in theory and in practice.

edi

No it's not, because energy equations are little useful in practice. How do I know? Decades of experience living and hunting in Canada.

I've shot moose with both .260 Rem. and 375H&H (and a plethora of other cartridges). The end result was exactly the same. Shoot moose in the boiler room. Moose run 20-30 paces. Moose dead.

Incidentally, the only moose I had run and run and run was one shot with a 30-06. Wasn't the cartridges fault though, but bullet failure.

 

[stephentri]

Reasonable discourse is unlikely to sway the opinion of this particular fellow.

Not unlike the other poster who feels that approaching 60,000psi and 3000fps is only then extracting "maximum performance" out of the 6.5x55

Less time reading forum fable and ballistic tables and more time shooting and hunting might change their minds, but somehow I doubt it.

Hi you have miss understood about what I was trying to get across was that most factory ammo is loaded to such a low pressure that some of it when used with 20in barrel it does not reach the legal requirements to shoot some deer in the UK. I reload my 6.5 x55 and with 140 grain sst with a speed of 2650 fps it has dropped even deer I have ever shot. The swede is a excellent catridge and does not need to be pushed at 3000 fps

 

[bewsher500]

I really can't be arsed to do the maths but all this talk of higher energy is amusing

i would be astounded if a .308 150-180gr leaving at 2650-2800fps on a good day actually delivers significantly more energy at the target than a 120-140gr 6.5 leaving at 2750-3000fps.......


the deer don't care
choose what weight bullet you want to shoot at what targets you most often shoot at the ranges most likely to be seen and find a gun that fits!


you lost me at "I can't find a cheap 6.5x55"
Move on or save up, unless you really really need a 6.5 I am not sure you will notice the difference

guntrader.co.uk: Gun Search Results

4 under £500
7 under £600
thats before you start brokering a deal

1000's of .308's etc though

 

[norma 308]

If you've somewhere to shoot (still pheasant shooting here ) I'd be happy to let you try any of my deer cals inc 6.5 and 308
norma

 

[Muir]

Not unlike the other poster who feels that approaching 60,000psi and 3000fps is only then extracting "maximum performance" out of the 6.5x55

I am a huge 6.5 proponent. I own eleven of them. I shoot them and love them, but the statement made about 60 K was pretty much correct. Only when loaded to around 60 K - the same pressures as, say, the 260- would you achieve maximum ballistic potential. As fine a killer of game as the 6.5x55 is, and as meaningless as the 'paper ballistics' seems in the field, the physics remains in play: Higher velocity (not necessarily a product of higher allowable pressures, I admit) will equal more energy, especially in bullets with as high a BC and Sectional Density as those found in the 6.5's. Is this pressure/speed necessary to kill game? Not from were I stand. Still, as pleased as I am with the cartridge, there is no denying that it is underloaded. As it is, the current 6.5x55 ammo/data can be equated to .357 Magnum case loaded to 38 Special levels. If the 6.5x55 was treated as a modern cartridge, and loaded as such, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.JMHO ~Muir

 

[Canadian1]

Hi you have miss understood about what I was trying to get across was that most factory ammo is loaded to such a low pressure that some of it when used with 20in barrel it does not reach the legal requirements to shoot some deer in the UK. I reload my 6.5 x55 and with 140 grain sst with a speed of 2650 fps it has dropped even deer I have ever shot. The swede is a excellent catridge and does not need to be pushed at 3000 fps

Understood. I shoot 140gr accubonds at 2650 and 130gr TSX at 2740.

 

[The deer man]

Jimmy.Jim are you there? We've all lost track of your original post but have you made up your mind yet?!
6.5x55, 308 or maybe 7mm-08?